Screw math... Who in their right mind would take the square root of -1?
hoser
e^iπ + 1 = 0
Danil
Now that's an interesting feature.
Danil
Hear, hear...bring back base 12 for currency whilst we're about it.
a cynic writes...
You're right! Let's all, please, dumb ourselves down to be exactly as intelligent as the average business person. We need to all leverage some synergy right away! And paradigms! We need to think outside the box and rematrix our latent cross-fertilization value creation initiatives!!!
anon
Yeah, what anon said! Er, wrote!
The waterboy
a = b
Capn' Kirk
And that is why division by zero is an error.
O Canader
Gee, spoil the fun so early...
Capn' Kirk
Sorry, at the university I went to, they remove the sense of humour when they give you the BSc in Mathematics -- but only for pure math, not Applied Math.
O Canader
-1 . you mean "i". Business appls dont need this. PI is the ratio of circumference to diameter. thats why it has so many digits.
Karthik
You know math does have other uses besides business...
Bill Rushmore
Haha. I'll bite on the troll bait.
Matt
"Sorry, at the university I went to, they remove the sense of humour when they give you the BSc in Mathematics -- but only for pure math, not Applied Math."
Capn' Kirk
>>Who in their right mind would take the square root of -1?
double_dark
As the first forms of writing we have were about selling donkeys and oxen and how many bushels of wheat could be expected and this was before Greek mathematics (which was partially derived from Babylonian anyway), I think we can safely say that business processes have been around as long as there were two people and one had something the other needed.
Simon Lucy
Matt, imaginary numbers are invaluable in EE for power analysis, where you have to deal with voltage and phase.
Philo
Well yeah, I know they're used all over the place in physics and engineering. Another example would be fourier series analysis and the FFT used for pretty much any kind of digital signal processing (audio codecs, voice over IP, whatever).
Matt
Well, it was fun. :) Trolling for Philo. Gonner make me some spanikopita once I get enuf.
hoser
Phase angles in degrees? I cringe at the thought of such ugliness ;-)
Matt
If by "boat" you mean "aircraft carrier" then yes - I qualified as both helmsman and Officer of the Deck on the USS Midway (CV 41)
Philo
aircraft carrier? pfft. why don't you go get yourself a REAL boat?
jackass
---"Hear, hear...bring back base 12 for currency whilst we're about it. "----
Stephen Jones
Matt,
Rob VH
Also, signal strength should always be expressed and calculated as a number from 0 to 10, not "dB" which are just stupid. Nobody thinks "I'm going to turn my iPod up to 72 dB," they think "I'm going to set it at 3 or 4" or "I'm going to turn it all the way up."
Ron
There is a web page going around about base 12, and they point out that you could on one hand in base 12, as long as you use all of your finger knuckles.
Keith Wright
...to 11?
Philo
One’s intellectual and aesthetic life cannot be complete unless it includes an appreciation of the power and the beauty of mathematics. Simply put, aesthetic and intellectual fullfillment requires that you know about mathematics.
Tapiwa
"...to 11?"
Ron
Aha! yep I'm should have thought of all that time series analysis of financial derivatives and what have you. I'm sure it's just dripping with i's. Never took any of the financial mathematics courses myself as they tend to sound boring as fuck, although a lot more lucrative than abstract algebra I'm sure, so hmm...
Matt
The Indiana State Legislature once debated a bill that would've established the value of pi as 3.2, 4 or 9 (they weren't sure either).
Tom H
Philo, were you ever involved in combat ops? (Midway OOD is damn impressive.)
Played tag with three other aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm. :-)
Philo
>> "But any branch of science that allows both irrational and imaginary numbers seems to be pushing it."
anon
I'd be interested in seeing a description of algebraic calculus that could be considered as deductive.
Simon Lucy
">> "But any branch of science that allows both irrational and imaginary numbers seems to be pushing it."
anon not the same one
When you say 'I'd be interested in seeing a description of algebraic calculus that could be considered as deductive'... what exactly are you looking for there? I'm not even quite sure what you mean by 'algebraic calculus', but any typical real analysis textbook will start out with the axioms for a complete ordered field and proceed to prove all of the basic properties of calculus from them very formally and deductively. If you were a sadist you could start off with just the ZF axioms for set theory and build everything up from there in a formal logic... any way you look at it you can build up mathematics completely deductively from suitable axioms.
Matt
Matt
as
Jack of all
There is numeric integration and algebraic integration, for example.
Simon Lucy
> Played tag with three other aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm. :-)
Well, he showed that there are statements that are undecidable (can't be proven or disproven) in any formal system that can model arithmetic. They're very contrived and peculiar examples though. Kind of analagous to handing someone a piece of paper that says 'this sentence is false' and acting like it makes the world of language fall apart.
Matt
Simon:
Matt
The grammar of mathmatics (and there can be many grammars), describes the solutions its designed for. There may be deductive reasoning going on, undoubtedly there is, but it is nothing much to do with axioms, other than a kind of a-priori knowledge of the domain.
Simon Lucy
Simon:
Matt
And, no I wouldn't really consider Newton or Leibniz's work on calculus to be a part of Mathematics, in the strict sense I'm using the word, until it was made rigorous by others. They had the inspiration, but they didn't quite manage to chase it home all the way. They deserve most of the credit for it as it's the inspiration that really matters, but still.
Matt
Matt, would you consider the continuum hypothesis contrived? It's leaky, by Gödel.
M
"An how come that "PIE" number has so many digits?"
5v3n
Hmm... good point CH is less contrived than the usual example. But any mathematics that depends on it is pretty much by definition so abstract as to be useless as anything but formal symbolic manipulation on your (by that point pretty arbitrarily-picked) axioms for set theory. Certainly no constructivist mathematics would touch it with a bargepole.
Matt
The point about pure research is you never know when it will turn out to be useful.
Stephen Jones
Oh yeah probability and combinatorics like that is useful all over the place. Believe me pure maths gets a lot more useless than that :-) Set theorists love proving things about weird and wonderful classes of infinity that are much bigger than anything needed for practical mathematics (for most of pure maths, even)... find a practical use for those sorts of things and you'll surprise/impress a lot of people.
Matt
All numbers are abstract concepts. While the set of natural numbers may be, well "natural", things get more abstract when you progress to integers (what does it mean to have -1 of anything?), rationals, and reals (including irrationals). Complex numbers may be one further step along the chain, but if you're comfortable with the concept of -1 then it's not a huge leap to accept an algebra in which the square root of -1 is defined. I think the terms "imaginary" and "real" are poorly chosen, giving people the impression that the square root of -1 is somewhat less real than the square root of 2. It's just that the algebra defined for the set of real numbers needs to be extended to cater for roots of negative numbers.
Appleologist
The square root of -1 is perhaps the best example of lateral thinking, where one expands from a _number line_ to a number _plane_
KayJay
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