Since we're talking about outsourcing so much...

Other countries have been outsourcing doctoral level education to the US for decades.  Walk through any grad school and you'll see a large number of foreign grad students.  Some of them stay in the US and work and live and eventually become US citizens.  Others go back their country of origin.

There'e no real point I'm trying to make here.  Just an observation.

Aaron F Stanton
Monday, March 15, 2004

As a result, we can have the pick of the litter in top engineering and science grads from around the world.  It is one of our greatest strengths and always in jeopardy when we go through our periodic isolationist-xenophobic-anti-immigration phases.

name withheld out of cowardice
Monday, March 15, 2004

However this also has to make it harder for US citizens to get into grad schools. They accept only a certain # of students each year. Doctoral students are usually paid a stipend.
Well if the foreigners are more qualified than the US applicants, I guess you can't prevent it. But keep in mind they can come here and get a free education, with a stipend, and then go back home where at least they can get a job.

The Real PC
Monday, March 15, 2004

The Real PC is spreading more FUD.

Business week a couple of weeks ago had article about the falling number of students going for PhDs. More and more, it is the students that are hard to come by, not the places at universities.  (Article was about the US. Not sure about other countries .... )

Tapiwa
Monday, March 15, 2004

U.S. citizens make up the vast majority of Nobel Prize winners.  Most of those were born outside the U.S. and had immigrated to do their research here.

asdf
Monday, March 15, 2004

I heard something similar about the scandal of the University of London that was revealed years ago.

The university takes a large number of foreign PhD students because foreign university fees are higher than domestic fees for UK citiziens (or EU).

Savage
Monday, March 15, 2004

Tapiwa, you've got the cart before the horse. NSF and university lobbies periodically scream about shortages of scientists or engineers, so they can more readily find applications for the PhD programs and thus cheap teaching assistants.

The flood of PhD's helps keep university salaries down, and industry salaries too, and this has acted to deter the best American students from PhD's and certainly from technical PhD's. Law or medical careers remain the first choice for them.

PhD
Monday, March 15, 2004

> The flood of PhD's helps keep university salaries down, and industry salaries too, and this has acted to deter the best American students from PhD's and certainly from technical PhD's.

Most universities have to declare all employee's salaries, if you have looked at any of these recent salary listings and chart their growth, you may decide what you are saying to be incredibly off the mark. I am not saying applicants and young PhD students aren't getting shafted, I am just saying that not everyone loses at a Uni.

Li-fan Chen
Monday, March 15, 2004

> http://www.library.utoronto.ca/utstaff/2000/

Here's the Uni from the city I live in. They don't have to pay their kid's tuition either as long as they go to the same school (and mom keeps the job at the Uni).

Li-fan Chen
Monday, March 15, 2004

Note that these are the ones making over 100K CDN.  Most don't, and hence aren't on the list.

danielsn
Wednesday, March 17, 2004

Danielsn, thanks for pointing this out. To provide information that clarifies what Danielsn is saying:

http://www.newsandevents.utoronto.ca/bin3/020401a.asp.

In particular I want to point you out these the following 3 paragraphs:


The number of female faculty members earning more than $100,000 at U of T increased by 32 per cent, according to the 2001 senior salary list released today.

Li-fan> Note the growth

The salary and taxable benefits list names 187 female academics compared to 141 in 2000. The number of male faculty on the list also jumped - to 837 from 753 - an 11 per cent increase. The number of female administrative staff is unchanged from last year, at 29, while the number of male administrative staff rose by 2.6 per cent to 40.

Li-fan> Note the growth for employees of all sexes.

A total of 1,093 U of T employees were on the list, an increase of 13.6 per cent. The salary and taxable benefit figures reported on T4 income statements are released in accordance with the provincial government's Public Sector Salary Disclosure Act.

Li-fan> Again, without quoting the obvious, note the growth.

Great year for dot bomb era.

Li-fan Chen
Thursday, March 18, 2004

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