The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 4 (of 5)

DotNet is Deja Vu

Many things that are discussed about DotNet were discussed for Java as well. That's Deja Vu and I am very tired of it. I am sure that I am not the only one, but there are the Virtual Machine newbies around here that are migrating because Microsoft is migrating.

Man that gives me a headache. Why we can't have everything we wish for ?

Dewd
Saturday, February 21, 2004

So I guess what your saying is the Microsoft centric developers are waking up to the problems java developers have known about and learned to live/deal with? Good point if that is what your saying.

I think the big issue is a lot of MS developers target the desktop and not the corporate world and have a hard on for the single .exe simplicity that is being left behind.

You can't have it both ways, you can't have an enterprise ready architecture that is simple and fits into a 2 mb download. Sorry, that's the way it is.

On the other hand, MS changes their developement platform often enough. Wait three years and you'll have a whole new set of complaints. Complaints 2.0 if you will.

If you want a single exe what's wrong with Delphi, or Real Basic? Answer, nothing. You're just too used to riding Microsoft's coat tails to venture out on your own with a tool made by another vendor. I'm not talking about everyone here, do don't be killing the messenger. That's just the way I see it. And if your answer is that "well, Microsoft tools are what everybody uses" then you've just discovered the problems with monopolies.

Mike
Saturday, February 21, 2004

"If you want a single exe what's wrong with Delphi, or Real Basic?.... You're just too used to riding Microsoft's coat tails to venture out on your own with a tool made by another vendor. "

Delphi is a great product (and I'm sure RealBasic as well), but the reality is that most developers do not get to choose their own tools. This choice is made for them by their management. For the most part the industry seems to be dominated by two giants: MS.NET & Java. It seems that if you want to work in this industry, you have to have some knowledge of one of these two (or both). Not that you will never use anyother language, or that .NET & Java are the end all to be all of languages, but the current reality is that many of the IT jobs you land will be in one of these two camps. So I don't blame folks for riding MS coat-tails or Sun's coat-tails. Also, the fact is that you make a pretty good living riding on either one of these coat-tails.

Cletus
Saturday, February 21, 2004

Everything we've been hearing about Java is just a repeat of Smalltalk, LISP, and UCSD Pascal. That's just Devja Vu and I'm sick of it.

There's nothing new under the sun.

Chris Tavares
Saturday, February 21, 2004

"but the reality is that most developers do not get to choose their own tools. This choice is made for them by their management. "

At the corporate level certainly. I'm talking about the desktop developers that are screaming about the large runtime downloads.

Mike
Saturday, February 21, 2004

I don't think Delphi is an option. Take a look at Borland's web site: it's now "Delphi for the Microsoft .NET Framework." The version that compiles to stand-alone executables is a legacy product. Why Borland would do something this stupid is beyond me.

RealBasic is interesting, but doesn't have market awareness and has an unusual development model (your project is in a single file; you can only view/edit your code one function at a time from a tree-style browser). Which isn't bad, but it's not what commercial developers are used to.

So even the desktop developers have to consider .NET -- and you bet they're going to complain about the huge runtime.

Nate Silva
Sunday, February 22, 2004

Nate ,

I own a small software company that has 20 vb 3 programs. I'm investigating languages for our next programs. RealBasic is a top contender, so I'm interested in any show stoppers in RB.

What is the downside of viewing only one procedure/function at a time?

RB does default to putting the whole program in one file. However, you can make something external, like a form or cutomized object (button,e tc.) so that it can be shared by several programs, such as having a common library of functions.

Does this address your concern about the project being in one file? Or is there some disadvantage that this "external" capability does not address?

The real Entrepreneur
Monday, February 23, 2004