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Architects here + offshore devs

How will we sustain hiring on-shore architects/business analysis in the future when we send all of the 'monkey-coding' offshore?  In other words - the Architects become architects by spending alot of their time coding.  There's no way around it.  But if there's no jobs to get from college to architect, how will one get the knowledge & experience required?  Does this mean there will be a shortage of architects?  H1b's limits get bumped up again at some point?

Who knows?
Thursday, December 18, 2003

Your question assumes that eventually absolutley no coding will be done here.  That is nonsense on its face.

Name withheld out of cowardice
Thursday, December 18, 2003

The architecting for offshored work will not be done in America. It will be done in India.

Thursday, December 18, 2003

Visual Nike++

Thursday, December 18, 2003

a. Architecturing today's software is an extremely complex task and requires a TEAM of contributors, co-thinkers.

b. Teams are not created just like that, but rather get build. Team building, motivating is something that North America cultivated for years. This plus implemented processes created excellent products in many industries including the software one.

However, the complexity of software plus the fact that the industy is so young did not allow American companies to succeed in repeatable development of excellent software products quite yet. Even licensing and certification did not become obligatory.

c. I do not know of any excellent product that came from India (correct me on that). The assumption here goes that they will produce great software.

Cheap stuff. I can believe that. But good stuff? How?

I think we are at the very beginning of a very interesting stage when cheap software starts coming from countries with different cultures and lifestyles. Countries that had never had any industrial software development culture whatsoever.

We are very close to the point when big and medium size North American corporations that went for it will realize WHAT those remote architects create and face THIS MARKET's maintenance and quality requirements.

Even hiring a local sub is a tremendous problem when it comes to software. What they do with India is in many cases, in my opinion, crazy, unless they had even worse software developed in-house. Allowing remote architects to design serious products for you is, to me, insane.

Thursday, December 18, 2003

I have just talked to someone at startup that
used the architects + offshore model and
is removing the offshore part.  Not because
the developers were bad.

It's just a simple matter of communication.
It turned out to be too hard to get everything coordinated
and working. Any new system has 1000s
of questions to be answered. If you are in the
same room you can talk it out.

son of parnas
Thursday, December 18, 2003

"It's just a simple matter of communication.
It turned out to be too hard to get everything coordinated
and working. Any new system has 1000s
of questions to be answered. If you are in the
same room you can talk it out. "

To which you've gotta ask management "why was this news to you?"


Thursday, December 18, 2003


in HOW THE MIND WORKS, Steven Pinker (cognitive pyschologist) talks about how much is IN OUR HEADS without us realizing it.

For example, SPEECH can seem simple. Lots of people believe we'll having computers which can UNDERSTAND language in just a decaded.  That probably won't happen because most of that knowledge (of langauge) is inside our brains where we can't really "see" it.

This leads to what I've noticed:
The easier it is to describe a project, the harder it is to implement, *usually*.  This is because it's easy to describe because everyone already *knows* how the program *should* work. I.e., "make it understand me when I talk to it".  YOU and I both know what that means because that knowledge is IN OUR BRAIN(s).

This problem becomes more pronounced if You and I are from different cultures, speaking with different idioms and different experiences. What is in my american brain (references to TV shows, ATM machines, etc.) might not be in an Indian programmer's brain.  The shared references are lost and we must not articulate LOTS OF information that we don't even realize is in our brains.

Friday, December 19, 2003

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