The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 3 (of 5) - IBM sends more jobs overseas

IBM sends more jobs overseas

"The 947 workers will be informed of the changes in the first half of next year, some by as early as the end of January, and will be asked to train their replacements, who will be workers from overseas. They will have 60 days to find another job within IBM, the report said. "

I'd love nothing more than seeing those 947 workers tell IBM in a single voice to go fuck themselves and train their replacements themselves.

http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/story/0,10801,88222,00.html

Not oursourced
Monday, December 15, 2003

This is great news! Exactly 947 new small businesses will be created! I'm sure roughly 946 of these have sufficient capital to start their own consulting firm, and the other guy is a real dick anyways.

MD
Monday, December 15, 2003

Suddenly the Bush plan for creating new jobs makes so much more sense ... =-)

Alyosha`
Monday, December 15, 2003

Absolutely Alyosha`! After all, Bush didn't say the new jobs would be created *overseas*.

Beware the power of my stinky feet!
Monday, December 15, 2003

"Suddenly the Bush plan for creating new jobs makes so much more sense"

I'm not going to defend Bush's economic plan, but I've always thought that laying blame or giving credit to one man - Democrat or Republican - for the state of the US economy is ridiculous.

We've got ~260 million people in the US, so what's that make the workforce - about 100 million? So the actions of one administration have much more of an impact on the economy that those 100 million people? With all due respect, I don't think so.

Nick
Monday, December 15, 2003

I guess they (the workers) should of thought twice about demanding higher pay. Oh, I forgot "it's thier right" to demand such things.

apw
Monday, December 15, 2003

"I guess they (the workers) should of thought twice about demanding higher pay. "

Really, eh? Those bastards! I mean IBM is yielding ever increasing profits and is doing more with less, so clearly those employees should just suck it and engage each other in a race to the bottom. Hell, let's abolish minimum wage while we're at it! No need to artificially limit our competitiveness in whoring down.

In reality this is yet another example of corporate profiteering at all costs-- it isn't about IBM being a profitable, healthy company (they already are), or about being competitive (IBM services and mainframe hardware have massive profit margins), but rather about having a little bit more padding for the executive slush funds).

IBM = Anti-American. Thank you for making vendor choices easier IBM.

Anonymous Cowboy
Monday, December 15, 2003

zzzzz.

Monday, December 15, 2003

It's closer to 32000 jobs lost:

http://jrobb.mindplex.org/2003/12/15.html#a3934

Monday, December 15, 2003

a) They're given the opportunity to find other jobs in IBM, which is one of the few big tech firms that is actually hiring right now. There are 300K people in the company working on umpteen disparate areas - there is hope for many of them (though they might have to move).

b) Sadly, they had it coming - all of the programmers are from IBM's Global Services division (consulting), meaning that the customize and build applications on top of IBM's software. These are not product development jobs, they are what Joel calls "building your company's accounts payable application" jobs. There are many parts of these projects that are reusable or that don't require customer input; hey are necessary, but... frankly, I'm sure some guy in India can handle it.

Bottom line: IBM software developers who are making core products or new/innovative things are working here (or in Europe). American tech firms are just following the lead of every other industry in the history of the world. Yes, it sucks - but it is not really avoidable.

following the pack
Monday, December 15, 2003

Actually, Nick, I agree with you. I just can't pass up an opportunity make a pointed barb at the current administration, even though it may be specious. The GOP propoganda machine runs on just as spurious post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc sound bites (e.g., the Bush tax cuts caused the phenomenal 7% growth in Q3 of this year).

I don't credit Clinton with the longest run of American prosperity underneath his administration (though this fact is a nice counter for those who thought his policies would ruin the US). I don't blame Bush for the recession. It was going to happen anyway, boom-bust business cycles being what they are.

I *DO* blame Bush for running ruinous budget deficits in a vain attempt to buy himself out of a recession. He's a tax-cut-and-spend profligate all the way.

Anyway, we now return you to your normally scheduled software discussions, now already in process.

Alyosha`
Monday, December 15, 2003

Yeah, I totally agree, lets abolish the minimum wage.

I personally think it is one of the greatest abominations ever to grace this earth.

Tapiwa
Tuesday, December 16, 2003

While we are at it. If some of the less libertarian members of this board concede that govt does not drive the economy, why have them in the first place.

A bit like having an automated food cooking system and then hiring someone who purports to be a Michelin rated chef.

Tapiwa
Tuesday, December 16, 2003

"...doing more with less..."

hmmmm, sounds fairly efficient to me. I'm sure along with myself, some of you are IBM shareholders.

It's managements responsibility to run as tight of a ship as possible. If that means getting rid some people or finding the same (or better) productivity for a cheaper price, so be it. It is also the employees responsibility to be as productive as possible, after all they are getting paid for what they do.

Ultimately the management reports to the shareholders. Yesterday's news made me $5700. I think I'm gonna go buy a nice big plasma TV.

apw
Tuesday, December 16, 2003

Yep, and long-term consequences of short-sighted policies be damned. To hell with our tax base, who the hell needs a middle-class? Let American just become a nation of haves and Wal-Mart greeters, er, have-nots.