The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 3 (of 5) - Software developers calling shots

Software developers calling shots

I saw this and thought it was pretty cool:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?L32C25D76

>HYDERABAD, India - Much like Silicon Valley during the boom, software giant Oracle is constantly scouting India's top tech schools, offering free cars, housing allowances and flexible work schedules to the country's best and brightest engineers.

>Together, the company's glossy development centers in Hyderabad and Bangalore are now its largest research and development facilities outside its headquarters in Redwood Shores. And construction cranes are set to break ground on a new state-of-the-art campus in Hyderabad, complete with a 1,000-car garage, library, weight room and exercise fields.

etc

That's pretty neat - I've never been offered a car as a signing bonus! What's the most interesting signing bonus you've been offered?

Things are Getting Better
Sunday, November 9, 2003

Cars were a pretty common incentive in the late 90s here. I never saw them with my own eyes, but I've heard friends tell about billboards in the Silicon Valley area that used to offer $200k and a new BMW as a delayed signing bonus to people who stayed some fixed period of time (2 or 3 years).

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Monday, November 10, 2003

<g> red flag...bull.....

FullNameRequired
Monday, November 10, 2003

Whoa...

"A software engineer in India typically earns $15 to $20 an hour, compared with salaries that can reach $120 an hour in the United States."

Uh, who the hell is getting $250k a year as a developer?

and...

"'The idea that Oracle India is simply for cost savings, I find that so offensive,' said Jennifer Glass, Oracle vice president for communications.

?!?!?

WTF would you do it if it wasn't for cost savings? Sounds like someone's been on the PC train too long...

Philo

Philo
Monday, November 10, 2003

I remember when Arsdigita used to loan you a Ferrari if you recruited 10 people http://web.archive.org/web/20000510060828/www.arsdigita.com/pages/jobs/recruiting

Matthew Lock
Monday, November 10, 2003

Why go to india if not for cost savings?

How about a decent work ethic?

Ged Byrne
Monday, November 10, 2003

[Why go to india if not for cost savings?
How about a decent work ethic? ]

That's one hell of a work ethic if it will overcome 12 time zones and 10,000 miles.

I don't seem to recall that work ethic was ever an issue in the software industry. The problem was getting the programmers to have a life in the first place.

anon
Monday, November 10, 2003

A car is real temptation in India. You can get a new Maruti for around $4000 but that's a lot of money for the Indian Middle Class. The average student out of college wouldn't normally expect to have a car until he had been working maybe ten years or so, unless he managed to get one with the dowry.

In the States, and to a lesser extent Europe, most students would have a car - probalby since they left high school - so the idea wouldn't be quite so appealing.

Stephen Jones
Monday, November 10, 2003

Philo,
I always wonder about statistics that say "salaries of x per hour." Sounds like a company that pays Y per year and reports x=(y/52)/40 for your hourly rate, but anything less than 60 hours a week is slacking - brings that average right down.

And of course they're not doing it for the cost savings!!! If they were doing it for the cost savings then that would be bad press, and worse they might be proven to NOT have saved money and they'd have to find a VP position at another company!

Unfocused Focused
Monday, November 10, 2003

I knew companies were giving loans to buy cars, but Free Cars - I don't belive it. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I am going to find out more about this.

Prakash S
Monday, November 10, 2003

Philo,

quite a few consultants still make $120 an hour.

Prakash S
Monday, November 10, 2003

yeah, free cars were reported in the .con days some places.

in many countries it's common. why? because of tax laws. in the usa, we get our health insurance from employers because of world war two compensation rules (couldn't increase salary, could add benefits). in other countries, people get cars (you're at the 90% incremental tax rate, but a car is the company's and thus untaxed for you). perhaps india falls into the latter category.

mb
Monday, November 10, 2003

that makeashorterlink.com site is pretty cool, didn't know about that one.

steven512
Monday, November 10, 2003

Yes, CONSULTANTS can make that much ... if they own the consulting company.

Generally, Full Time Employees (FTEs), on the other hand, don't make anywhere near that in the US.

JMHO, but every job study in the world would support me in this ...

Matt H.
Monday, November 10, 2003

Nobody makes $120/hr as a hourly rank and file developer working for a company. BUT most US companies that do work for other companies bill the time of their average developers at $90-$175/hr. The india firms in the article, I don't know -- i assume they are saying that the complete total cost billed is $20/hr. compared to $120.

The programmers who are being billed out at $120/hr are getting paid $30-40/hr. themselves. The company keeps the extra $80 as profit after covering $10 in expenses.

dDnnis Atkins
Monday, November 10, 2003