The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 3 (of 5)

web design rates

how do you charge for webdesign? by the hour? by the page? a flat fee for the whole project?

For pure HTML? with CGI/ASP/PHP?

EAW
Monday, October 27, 2003

PHP/HTML

Hourly and Flat fee by project. Basically I have an hourly rate but I give a hourly project estimate. This has the advantage of being able to easily charge for extra hours when the project goes beyond scope.

Almost Anonymous
Monday, October 27, 2003

You don't.

I know this will get me flamed, but there is very little money to be made in web development at the moment.

There is very little non-trivial work out there. The only folk that are building sites like that are huge govt concerns. With these guys, you just pick a number, and add four zeros. then pick another number, add 3 zeros and charge this as the monthly support contract.

Most folk just want a CMS, ala MoveableType; or a shopping cart, ala OSCommerce; or a portal, ala Drupal, *nuke; or a discussion board, ala ....

It is almost embarassing to charge for this sort of work.

ten minute to download off hotscripts.com, another hour to pick the right theme. A few hours worth of effort before the client can begin adding content. Hardly worth charging for.

*sigh* I miss the .con days.

Tapiwa
Monday, October 27, 2003

$7.5 an hour

Microsoft all time fan, yeah right!
Monday, October 27, 2003

For small businesses I've moved to charging by the project. For $x you get a,b,c. For $y you get x,y,z.

Any custom development required gets billed by the hour.

Monday, October 27, 2003

Not that I don't let the bigger companies pick from the canned packages... it's just they seem to always want something custom.

Monday, October 27, 2003

"It is almost embarassing to charge for this sort of work.

ten minute to download off hotscripts.com, another hour to pick the right theme. A few hours worth of effort before the client can begin adding content. Hardly worth charging for."

This is exactly the wrong type of attitude to have.

1) A few hours is worth charging for. Say you bill $50 an hour. I define a "few" as between 3 and 5 ( 2 is "a couple", 7 or more are "several"), so you're looking at $100 to $250 in billings for those "few" hours.

2) People employ programmers or the time-savings as much as for the expertise. Sure, a user could stumble through those downloads, trial-and-error their way through those themes, and hack through those few hours until it's content time, but perhaps they have more important things to do with their time.

Just because it is easy for you and I to do these things does not mean that doing these things has no value. People pay for convenience.

Norrick
Monday, October 27, 2003

I charge ~ $40 usd, but I rarely do just HTML. Its typically HTML and design, PHP or Java, Database design and configuration and server installation.

Still, I dont think Id find much work at this rate if I diddnt have a couple of old customers and 40 old college-buddies who call on me when they need stuff like this done.

Eric DeBois
Monday, October 27, 2003

Norrik, I still think it is hardly worth charging for.

This is the sort of work that I do as a loss leader. I do it for nothing, and you spread the word, and get me real business.

Tapiwa
Tuesday, October 28, 2003

Is it just me, or is that a zombie on the OSCommerce website (top-center)?

I'd give you a link, but...

Tuesday, October 28, 2003

"but there is very little money to be made in web development at the moment"

Speak for yourself.

Tuesday, October 28, 2003

"but there is very little money to be made in web development at the moment"

Having survived the acute bust and post-boom, consistently employed as a Web Developer, I beg to differ.

It's true that 'Web Design' is done. The 'HTML & PHP guy' has been replaced by a more sensible separation of concerns- Graphic Designers and Developers. Some of us even have crossover skills which can prove to be quite in-demand.

Having just left a pure 'Web Shop' to do internal corporate stuff, I have to admit I saw the market for mid-size public web as a dying one, but there is still tons of work ouside of the realm of public-
facing web sites. Maintaining my companys public site and numerous internal web apps is most definitely a full-time gig.

Matthew Lee
Tuesday, October 28, 2003

contrary to tapiwa's opinion (which are usually correct) I would posit that it is EASIER to make money as a web developer vs. a very technical programmer. Web design might be conceptually easier, but it is still labor intensive.

EVERYONE has a website these days. My hospital, my eye doctor, my grocery store, the place where I work, the place where my mom works, my auto shop, etc.

In contrast, not everyone needs a C++ programmer, or a java programmer. Most places do need some sort of database, though.

I would charge per hour. However, you could get creative with billing. $500 to set up moveable type, $50 per hour after that.

rz
Tuesday, October 28, 2003

rz, Matthew and others, I take it back.

I should have qualified my comment with "in my experience."

Spent a a bit of time trying to drum up web development business not too long ago, and it all came to nought. Then I saw a few UK developers sites, and what they were charging, and decided it really was not worth it...

Tapiwa
Tuesday, October 28, 2003

I, if asked, will quote astronomical rates for web design because I really don't want to do it anymore ;)

Flamebait Sr.
Tuesday, October 28, 2003