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Y DOES it Matter what Joel thinks re: Exceptions?
And to amplify the point: why does it matter what anyone in a mentorship position thinks about your favorite or least liked programming technique? And, in general, why does it matter what other programmers think about your code?
No, really... I was away from this board for a week, and came back to about a dozen rabid dissections of Joel's discussion of exceptions that appear to be a vast waste of personal energy.
Opinions are like dark, smelly bodily orifices. Everyone has one, and you know the rest.
The point is, I think some of you are nominating certain people for adhoc personality-cult positions. The fact that Joel likes this or doesn't, or that anyone else does likewise, does not bother me in the least.
The following facts are true, at least for me, anyway.
I get my work done.
I make my clients happy.
I am proud of my work.
My work does not turn to crap nor become demeaned simply because someone in a public position takes an opposing tact to some technique or language I use. And I feel no duty to exercize my angst in arguing with people I don't know just to defend an abstract position.
I think what is most disturbing about all the flak that his exception article generated is that professional programmers are supposed to be inner-directed and inner-motivated. In fact, if you aren't, you are *really* toast. So arguing so much about this crap has the feel of mass personal feelings of inadequacy.
Self confidence, people. It's a BIG world.
Is Joel paying you? Except in about 10 or less individual situations, NO.
Just my opinion. I find Joel's opinions refreshing and fascinating. But they are not the "law".
Bored Bystander
Friday, October 17, 2003
throw new ThreadIsOverException( );
Alyosha`
Friday, October 17, 2003
Really. ;-)
Bored Bystander
Friday, October 17, 2003
Actually I think this is a very relevant thread, and it's not really a continuation of the Exception thread (though it is a spin-off of it). Instead it's a discussion about the black & white "one true way" avocacy that is far too common in this industry (it appeared in some of the threads where people beat their drums about how outrageous it is that some people think there is more than one right way).
Dennis Forbes
Friday, October 17, 2003
From Clay Shirky,
http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
Shirky describes this feature of a group.
>>
Religious veneration. The nomination and worship of a religious icon or a set of religious tenets. The religious pattern is, essentially, we have nominated something that's beyond critique. You can see this pattern on the Internet any day you like. Go onto a Tolkein newsgroup or discussion forum, and try saying "You know, The Two Towers is a little dull. I mean loooong. We didn't need that much description about the forest, because it's pretty much the same forest all the way.
Try having that discussion. On the door of the group it will say: "This is for discussing the works of Tolkein." Go in and try and have that discussion.
Now, in some places people say "Yes, but it needed to, because it had to convey the sense of lassitude," or whatever. But in most places you'll simply be flamed to high heaven, because you're interfering with the religious text. "
<<
I think it is especially true of most discussion forums - but is it true of JoS? I don't think so. I don't see many sacred cows around here. And when people say "Joel is dead wrong about exceptions", it just goes to show that this isn't a religious kind of place.
Of course, I'm only baiting you....
Knowledge Maker
Friday, October 17, 2003
I don't know about you, but I found the exception discussion a lot of fun. The last week certainly has made me think about what is good and bad about exceptions.
Does it matter what Joel thinks? No, not really. But if you think he's wrong, then it makes for an interesting discussion.
Almost Anonymous
Friday, October 17, 2003
Joel, do you think my editor makes me look fat? :-P
Sycophantic Poster
Friday, October 17, 2003
Your religious debates are my lunch-time entertainment!
Control Freak
Friday, October 17, 2003
"The fact that Joel likes this or doesn't, or that anyone else does likewise, does not bother me in the least. "
Well, no, me either - I mean, I *do* have a life. But have you considered this?
Sometimes, you run across someone, either in the real world, or here in the ether, and you go, "Ah, at last - someone who gets it". And then they go and disappoint you.
My example of this is Harrison Ford. The interviews with him that I'd read were very impressive, and gave me the sense that here was a man of integrity who really understood who he was, and what was important to him.
Then he dumped his wife for a younger woman and got an earring.
Grumpy Old-Timer
Friday, October 17, 2003
Not to mention, he made "Hollywood Homicide".
Zahid
Friday, October 17, 2003
G.O.T., I think you summed up the state of affairs perfectly.
I know what you're saying. But I have learned to realize in life that someone who "gets it" on many things may be vehemently disagreeable to me on other issues. It's not reasonable to expect someone to agree 100% of the time.
I personally think it verges on co-dependency to expect someone to agree with you and to hold the "right" opinions all the time. That was my main point.
Bored Bystander
Friday, October 17, 2003
What about Martin Fowler?
There's a guy that I think "really gets it" (and Joel endorses him as well).
Dunno whether he wears an earring or not though.
Portabella
Friday, October 17, 2003
"Sometimes, you run across someone, either in the real world, or here in the ether, and you go, "Ah, at last - someone who gets it". And then they go and disappoint you."
I think the problem here is that people are expecting perfection? The idealization of "someone who gets it" elevates the subject of this categorization to the realm of perfection - except Joel is a human being.
It is irrelevant whether Joel considers himself smart or not, or the groups thinks so or not, Joel is a human being. Therefore at some point (at least), he will screw up.
Personally I read Joel's articles because some of them make me think. I don't like the MS-ONLY(TM) attitude or what seems to me sometimes a mix of "I want to do the right thing for the world" yet not seem to have much compassion for some that are "not in." *shrugs* I am an independent thinker.
Anyway, just my $3.95.
- Raist
Raist3d
Saturday, October 18, 2003
"I personally think it verges on co-dependency to expect someone to agree with you and to hold the "right" opinions all the time. That was my main point. "
hehe, well, I've been ranting about how much I hate try/catch and exceptions for months. I was quite happy to see Joel taking my position, quite out of the blue. :)
But then, I never said I wasn't co-dependent or self-aggrandizing...:P
smkr45
Saturday, October 18, 2003
not to mention wrong :P
ihadda
Sunday, October 19, 2003
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