The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 3 (of 5) - J2EE architect certification

J2EE architect certification

What are your thoughts on J2EE architect certification? Worth doing, or not?

(I've been developing Java since 1996 and J2EE since 1998).

certifiable
Sunday, October 5, 2003

If you don't have to pay for it or spend too much time studying then get certified/licensed in J2EE or anything else. Considering you have been doing it since '98, I would suggest you spend your time learning something else.

Tom Vu
Sunday, October 5, 2003

I'd be looking at architect certification as a way of moving from being JustAProgrammer to being an architect.

I'm not interested in Java certification for the reasons you say: I could be teaching those courses, no need to take them.

certifiable
Sunday, October 5, 2003

"I'd be looking at architect certification as a way of moving from being JustAProgrammer to being an architect"

A certification does not make someone architect. It's probably better if you just start calling yourself a very smart software/system/infrastructure architect. Most people will just assume your are.

Tom Vu
Sunday, October 5, 2003

> A certification does not make someone architect.

Sure. As the JavaWorld article on certification says, "certification is not a substitute for experience".

But it's also a way to get your foot in the door.

> It's probably better if you just start calling yourself a very smart software/system/infrastructure architect. Most people will just assume your are.

No, they, the ones in a position to hire me at any rate, will ask for references for my last architecture job.

Whereas if I have the certification, and can talk the talk, they're liable to let me walk the walk as well.

certifiable
Sunday, October 5, 2003

if you have 5 years of experience already, it should not take very much time to study up and take the test, so why not just do it?

contractor
Sunday, October 5, 2003

Who needs an Architect?

http://martinfowler.com/ieeeSoftware/whoNeedsArchitect.pdf

No, seriously. IN GENERAL, I don't like what many people mean when they use that term.

Of course, there are exceptions. Apllied correctly, it's a real good thing (RGT).

JMHO ...

Matt H.
Sunday, October 5, 2003

> Who needs an Architect?

All the places I've seen that do architecture badly.

Seriously.

One of the reasons that I want to do it is that I'm tired of seeing the architecture fucked up as badly as it usually is, and good engineers just holding the line to try to keep it from getting any worse.

certifiable
Sunday, October 5, 2003

Certifiable:

Did you even READ the article by fowler?

Matt H.
Monday, October 6, 2003

> Did you even READ the article by fowler?

I read it when it first came out, months ago. I read Fowler's site on a weekly basis. I consider his work a *lot* more essential to architecture than J2EE certification. But I think that getting certification might actually get me in a position to apply his ideas.

The article *starts* by noting that one of ThoughtWorks chief architects hates the term architect. But of course they call him that anyway, since it's the only title that really fits. That, in a nutshell, is why I want to be one. Because it shouldn't matter, but, in fact, it does.

I'm not sure if you've read the JustAProgrammer thread on the c2 wiki, but that addresses this issue as well: being a programmer on Big Ball of Mud projects.

I'd be happy to step down from "being an architect" on teams that have a deep, shared understanding of the problem domain. But in my experience, these are the exception, not the rule. Sturgeon's Law, in short.

certifiable
Monday, October 6, 2003