The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 3 (of 5)

Where to Place a Job Ad?

I'm about to put a job ad up, and I wonder if Monster.com is still frequented by a lot of folks? I've used them in the past, but it's been about a year since I've hired my last programmer, and I wanted to know if things have changed.

Does anyone have an opinion out there in terms of if Monster.com is one of the places you'd look first if you're looking for a programming job? (I know I'd look there first.)

I'd like to use one service only, and I'd like to use the best one...

Thanks,
Dave

Dave
Friday, September 26, 2003

YOu could put on Simon's website http://www.ijustheard.com - it will hekp the folks on this forum....

Prakash S
Friday, September 26, 2003

Do you really want to post an ad? At this point, you'll be drowning in email within an hour.

I'm looking for a new job and in the past 2 weeks I've been directly contacted by a couple of companies (not recuiters) based on the resumes I have on computerjobs.com and dice.com.

Talking to them, they decided not to post the ad because of the email flood and the annoying calls from recruiters trying to place people (they didn't want to use recruiters).

There are enough current postings on the job sites that both were able to find enough qualified people without have to post the job.

RocketJeff
Friday, September 26, 2003

Prakash - Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out.

RocketJeff - That's an interesting take, but I guess my gut reaction is that I don't have time to go hunting people down.

Instead, what I do is purposefully make it a little involved to apply for the position. I have a multi-page questionnaire that I ask applicants to fill out. In addition, I refuse to review plain-text submissions sent via the "automatic" tools on Monster.

Plus, I can judge by how people chase the job how much drive and motivation they have.

Anyhow, this process has worked very well for us in the past, and I think I'm going to stick with it, but thought I'd throw the question out there to see if there was any "out of the box" thinking I should be doing...

I'll look into both suggestions. Thanks!

Dave
Friday, September 26, 2003

Dave,

While I'm sure you get people desperate enough for a job that they're willing to jump through hoops, do you think you're actually getting the best qualified people?

Heck, I haven't had a full-time position in 11 months and I wouldn't follow your procedure. People who make you jump through hoops just to get an interview are usually the same people who continue to jump though them after you're hired.

RocketJeff
Friday, September 26, 2003

http://www.craigslist.org - depending on your region, of course.

Sam Livingston-Gray
Friday, September 26, 2003

"RocketJeff - That's an interesting take, but I guess my gut reaction is that I don't have time to go hunting people down."

Then you don't need to fill the position.

Philo

Philo
Friday, September 26, 2003

RocketJeff:

The real superstars recognize the fact that I'm providing them with the ability to gain an edge over their competition, and leap at it. The best employees I ever hired were those who went to town on the application.

I'm afraid not enough people realize that when you apply for a job, you're selling a product--yourself.

So, I'd compare your question to someone who would ask, "Do you think the vendor will actually spend the time to fill out this RFI?"

Only if they want the business...

Dave
Friday, September 26, 2003

Philo:

Huh?

I'm afraid your response is counterintuitive. Only if I had spare time should I question my decision to take on another employee.

I need to spend my time managing my project and reading questionnaires from those employees who want to fight for a position at my company, not going out and hunting people down.

Dave

Dave
Friday, September 26, 2003

I use http://www.flipdog.com and http://www.computerjobs.com when I'm looking for a job.

Andrew Burton
Friday, September 26, 2003

>>> RocketJeff - That's an interesting take, but I guess my gut reaction is that I don't have time to go hunting people down. <<<

The concept here is that you have your choice of spending time hunting people down or spending time sifting throught the flood of responses you'll get when you post the job ad. Some employers think the former is more efficient.

Z
Friday, September 26, 2003

What browser do people use for flipdog? Please be specific as to version. My initial attempts to use that site resulted in various browser crashes and hangs. I have never seen site that caused so much trouble for the browser. I use Netscape 7.0 and have tried a couple of others (don't remember which now. I finally gave up.)

gc
Friday, September 26, 2003

You could try reading the big orange box in the centre of the page that says:

*** NOTICE ***
This site contains programming that requires a different version of your Netscape browser. FlipDog.com currently supports Netscape 4 (versions 4.07 to 4.79).

Anonymous Coward
Friday, September 26, 2003

put your ad on a mailing list targeted to desired skill set. I have found that people who are really interested in the technology or field subscribe to a mailing list

Tom Vu
Friday, September 26, 2003

Dave: have you asked your current employees who they know? It's better sometimes to search your network than to pick someone up cold off the street.

When I was unemployed, I would often send my resume to the person or email listed (with a brief one-or-two paragraph sales pitch), as well as use the automatic tools on Monster. The reason being that I did not know if they thought like you did (automatic tools = lazy = no hire) or whether they wanted all their resumes to go to one account (not using automatic tools = doesn't do what we asked = no hire).

The other disenheartening thing was to fill out pages and pages of "who are you" registration forms without any guarantee or belief that anyone would ever see them.

If you do choose to use Monster, please make sure to indicate:

* real people, no agencies
* send me email with cover letter (no automatic tools)

Also make sure each applicant gets a response that you recieved and will see their resume (preferably in a way that doesn't seem autogenerated).

Alyosha`
Friday, September 26, 2003

Flipdog?? The jobs there are pulled from websites by a spider. There are jobs listed for any number of companies that went out of business a year ago.

Applying for Flipdog listings has to be the least effective way to find a job.

Clutch Cargo
Friday, September 26, 2003

Alyosha`

Great feedback, thank you. I have informed our staff that we're looking to fill the position, and they're keeping their ears open.

I did specify on the Monster ad that a) send a cover letter, resume, and completed questionnaire, all in Word format, b) no agencies or sponsorships, and c) we will not review resumes in plain text format or automatically submitted via Monster's tools.

Dave

Dave
Friday, September 26, 2003

And I'll have to work on getting a response out to people--the hard part is not making it seem like it's automatically generated. Even if I manually replied, I'd likely copy and paste, so it would be difficult to get back to everyone.

However, since only a small percentage actually follow directions, I could probably get back to those who do, in fact, submit all three required documents.

Thanks again,

Dave

Dave
Friday, September 26, 2003

Sounds like these tests I heard about in high school, and I think I actually took one.

"Carefully read all the instrcutions before you begin the test. 1. Do not fill out any questions, you will fail if you answer any of the questions. 2. Just write your name at the top of the page and fold your hands."

Mark T A W .com
Friday, September 26, 2003

I'm looking for those people who either got it right the first time, or never forgot the lesson.

<g>

Dave

Dave
Sunday, September 28, 2003