The Old Joel on Software Forum: Part 3 (of 5)

Gay men on the planet

Okay Joel - was your front page hacked or are the comments getting to you?

What's up with the odd footnote?

?
Monday, January 26, 2004

It is a tounge-in-cheek response to http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=107555

In that thread, an Indian took offense to the comment about how many Indians misplace their commas. His reply was to the effect of, "well, if you said something like that about gay people, everyone would realize how bigoted that is!"

A key piece of information some miss is that Joel is himself, homosexual, so by making such a comment he's poking fun at himself (or his subculture) as well as the Indian poster.

Alyosha`
Monday, January 26, 2004

That raises an interesting point. Would I, a left footed, follically challenged hetero have a chance of being hired by FC?

What is the percentage of breeders at FC? Is it representative of the population? Should it be?

Just blathering, really.

Monday, January 26, 2004

"at least pick out a handbag that matches your outfit"

Haha! Priceless. Time to lighten up ,people!

the capitalist
Monday, January 26, 2004

I suspect that the percentage of the population at FC are 100% full of competent workers who are capable of doing the job that Joel want them to do.

In business, this is ALL that matters.

T.J.
Monday, January 26, 2004

"In business, this is ALL that matters."

Shhh..Don't tell the EEOC this. It's radical ideas such as hiring people for their qualifications, not their race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual preferences that drive those folks nuts.

Mark Hoffman
Monday, January 26, 2004

A large proportion of the population of India seem to lose their articles, both definite and indefinite. And nearly every applicant from Pakistan tells me he is "graduate from best university in Pakistan". Might be less of a problem if they weren't applying for jobs as English Language Lecturers.

Stephen Jones
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

""In business, this is ALL that matters."

Shhh..Don't tell the EEOC this. It's radical ideas such as hiring people for their qualifications, not their race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual preferences that drive those folks nuts. "

So you're saying, Mark, that discrimination doesn't exist in the American workplace?

Brainwave
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

Good point brainwave. Just because the PC crowd imposes bad solutions (i.e. hiring on the basis of raise to counterbalance not hiring on the basis of race) doesn't mean it isn't a significant problem.

I think it will get worse. Now that email resume blasts are so easy employers will be increasingly hiring people they "know", i.e. networking. If employers have friends who are not members of certain minority racial groups...

name withheld out of cowardice
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

To come back to the topic of this thread, just shortly: I don't care if Joel himself is homosexual, heterosexual, or only interested in fish.

It's simply a point that is completely unrelated to the hiring process. Or should be. If, of course, you're more interested in matching handbags than qualifications, that'd be important.

So what are you hiring? Professional software developers or really good dressers?

Yes, I know he's trying to make a point there. Unfortunately, he fails miserably. Ah well, no skin off my back. I know that applying at FC would be the worst thing I could do - I find myself constantly disagreeing with the way Joel presents things :)

Robert Blum
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

All Joel does in this article is give some tips on how to avoid looking like a dunce when appliying for an internship. This stuff is so basic one wonders why this would ever have to be put into writing, but apparently there is plenty of roadkill out there that needs some "breath in, breath out" reminders to make it through the average day.

As for the handbag, my Gawd people, how humorless can you get? Hey, it won't exactly qualify for the "most original joke of the planet awards 2004", but it was obviously a decent lighthearted quip to remind the blondness in all of us to not walk into the interview wearing your "I have been on latrine duty all week during bean season and my white socks and sandals got a bit soiled" outfit that really shows how much you care.

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

"So you're saying, Mark, that discrimination doesn't exist in the American workplace? "

No, I don't think I ever said that. But I'll say it now. Like the wanted poster at my local university that states "Minority and women applications especially wanted." Most white males read that as "Whitey need not apply." Obviously the talent, dedication or professionalism of the applicants isn't the main factor in the hiriing decision: Their race and/or sex is.

I could of swore that we passed a law in '64 that made hiring based upon race or sex illegal.

Yeah, yeah, I know..I'm just not enlightened. I'm just not smart enough to understand how applying racial qualifications to the hiring process (eg, racial quotas) somehow gets us to the point where we hire on ability, not race.

But I have no doubt that someone will attempt to correct my backward, uneducated ways....

Mark Hoffman
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

Mark, did you grab that poster and run it by the EEOC? (Or do you just gripe about it?)

Kyralessa
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

Kyralessa,

You're funny.

The EEOC wholly endorses this type of recruiting practice. It's quite common in government and university hiring.

Most of the posters are worded slightly different, saying "Minorities and women are encouraged to apply". Of course, this can easily be argued that they aren't discriminating against whites, merely "encouraging" minorities to apply. To make up for all those years of oppresssion, no doubt.

Of course, if my company stated that "Whites and males are encouraged to apply", I would be slapped with an EEOC audit so fast my head would spin. Thus, the obvious double-standard.

Mark Hoffman
Tuesday, January 27, 2004

Back when I was in college, I was about to apply for an internship at an insurance company when someone pointed out it was for minorities only.

I was offended but, sadly, not shocked.

A year later, when I graduated, jobs were scarce. One of our african american peers had a job lined up at the insurance company, helped no doubt by the internship (or perhaps that job, too, was for minorities only).

Wouldn't bother me quite so much except that this is the last guy I'd EVER hire. I worked on a grou project with him. He turned his work in at about 1am the MORNING IT WAS DUE.

Oh... and he actually wasn't technically supposed to even be graduating. He had stopped attending one of his classes.

But, of the 20+ graduating senior Electrical Engineers, he was one of about 4 that I know had job offers.

The real Entrepreneur
Tuesday, January 27, 2004