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Dynamic SVG (dSVG)

Saw this on /. and wanted more intelligent commentary on it than is available there ;-)

"dSVG is a language for describing UI controls and behaviors in XML"

Download the spec and examples: they work if you have Adobe's SVG plugin version 3.

Samuel Jack
Monday, July 21, 2003

Awwww.. forget it!

There should be a way to run compiled C# bytecode in the web browser, with almost full access to all the browser's features.

THAT would be a real revolution.


Because I belive MS can do this right, not like Sun has done with the slow, ugly and broken Java.

We need a rich web development language on the client!

Monday, July 21, 2003

"We need a rich web development language on the client!"

Well, that would need to be a scripting language like Rebol for example.

Oh wait, we already have Javascript (ECMAScript) ...

David Basil Wildgoose
Monday, July 21, 2003

JavaScript? Have you ever tried to program using JavaScript or DHTML?

I mean, really do something complicated by yourself, not just do something simple, or cut & paste an example.

JavaScript / DHTML is a very crappy programming language.

Weakly typed. Sucky.

Monday, July 21, 2003

To be honest, No I haven't.

But I understand (from a technical perspective) that Javascript is actually surprisingly powerful, for example it supports full closures.

I'm also an advocate of static strong typing, but in that case I would tend to look to Haskell and the ML family rather than C# which I presume is more like the C/C++/Java approach of static weak typing with lots of "casts".

David Basil Wildgoose
Monday, July 21, 2003

Javascript is an extremely powerful language and simple to use.  The problem is not Javascript.  The problem is the interface to the browser.  For lack of a better term, the browser API sucks.  HTML is not designed for creating rich user interfaces; it's just a document-display format with forms.  Dynamic HTML really doesn't do much to help that (and it really can't).

The browser needs to be replaced with a UI front-end system which is not based on the concept of a document.  We need to take everything that's good about the web but revolve it around the idea that websites are applications.

Almost Anonymous
Monday, July 21, 2003

XUL is quite capable and amazingly easy to build apps in. Too bad it's Mozilla/Netscape-only.

Joshua Paine
Monday, July 21, 2003

XUL+Javascript is immensely pleasurable.

Although having done a UI in just XHTML and JS that's not that bad, apart from the differences in base font between Mozilla and IE.

Simon Lucy
Monday, July 21, 2003

Ultimately a web-based application browser should have the following features:

1) Extensive use of common GUI controls including textboxes, listboxes, comboboxes, grid controls, etc.  It should be relatively painless to create complex compound controls from the base controls.  Something like a treeview should be possible (and easy) to create without forcing the developer into a particular look or behaviour.  All the GUI controls should be as customizable (look-wise) as current HTML controls.

2) It should make extensive use of Windows and scrollable regions.  Unlike with current browsers, windows should be contained entirely within the browser pane.

3) Should allow scripts to asynchronisely request information from the server and update the display appropriately.  There would be no moving between pages on each request.

4) It should make extensive use of URLs much as the current web does.  As you move from screen to screen (or page to page) the URL should represent that current location (for bookmarking and other purposes).

5) All other web technologies should remain the same.  The data passing can be done over HTTP.

There was an example of something like this (implemented as Java applet and ActiveX control) but I cannot seem to remember it (or find the link in my thousands of bookmarks).

Almost Anonymous
Monday, July 21, 2003

Almost Anonynmous,

It's called Mozilla.  The UI elements are there including a really nice mutil-column tree. All scriptable with javascript. The best example is Mozilla itself. It is a XUL application and if you look into the jars you'll find that all the UI iunteraction stuff is done in Javascript.

And you can build the version with SVG and script SVG as part of your HTML/XHTML/XUL dom.

And with the 1.5 release, they will be separating the browser and mail so it will be lean and mean like Firebird.

It's already there. We already have it. It's free and easy. The O'Reilly book is free online

and check out

XML-RPC, Soap,WSDL and XMLHttp are all there in Javascript. You can have a rich UI and download stuff in the background. It works cross-platform and is *so much better* than DHTML.

IT doesn't run in IE but that's a feature!

fool for python
Friday, July 25, 2003

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