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PBS program, NOW with Bill Moyers

I was contacted by a Producer for the PBS television program, NOW with Bill Moyers.
She wanted to interview individuals who have lost their jobs because they were offshore outsourced. Does anyone have the name of someone who can demonstrate that they have downsized because of outsourcing?

Ron Hira, Ph.D., P.E.
Columbia University
Center for Science, Policy, and Outcomes
E-mail:            Web site:
1 Thomas Circle, NW  Suite 1075
Washington, DC  20005
tel:  202-776-0370
fax:  202-776-0375

Ron Hira, Ph.D., P.E.
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Hi Ron,

Ron wrote, "She wanted to interview individuals who have lost their jobs because they were offshore outsourced. Does anyone have the name of someone who can demonstrate that they have downsized because of outsourcing?"

No, I can't. However, I can provide you with several online articles regarding computer workers who have lost their jobs to outsourcing such as this one, "BofA cutting 900 tech jobs, 232 in Bay Area". Also, you might want to send an email to Dr. Norman Matloff.

Below, are two of his relevant web pages:

Norman Matloff's Immigration Forum

Norman Matloff, Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage, Testimony to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee, presented 1998 April 21, updated 2002 July 12

Below, are a few web sites where you might want to re-post your question:

* - run by the AFL-CIO  -
* Washington Alliance of Technology Workers, Communications Workers of America, Local 37083, AFL-CIO

In my opinion, the producer of "NOW with Bill Moyers" tv show should really give serious consideration on doing a segment about American technical workers who have lost their jobs to H-1B visa workers instead of or in addition to the outsourcing segment she plans on producing. Why? I don't think the outsourcing of work can be stopped, however, Congress does have the ability to repeal the H-1B/L-1 visa laws or at least amend them.

One Programmer's Opinion
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

...spefically concentrating on abuses of the H-1B program (domestic employees available to do the work, treating the H-1B's as indentured servants, paying well below market rate)

Given the current state of the IT industry, it's impossible to justify the H-1B program with some narrow exceptions.


Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Anyone want to guess what the likelihood is of a show on PBS mentioning Hillary Clinton and Tata?

Wednesday, June 25, 2003

I don't know if I directly lost my job due to offshore outsourcing, but it's pretty close. I can ask around my old workplace and see if anyone was directly laid off because of this.
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Interestingly, Norman Matloff argues that the misuse of H-1Bs and L1s is much more to blame for restraining U.S. programmer wages than off-shore outsourcing.


"Offshoring only comprises about 1% of U.S. software development work."


"Savings are not nearly as large as perceived. A recent WALL STREET JOURNAL article cited a cost
savings of 22%—far less than one would expect from the fact that salaries in India are about 1/10
of those in the U.S., and certainly not enough to offset the major problems which offshoring tend to

Jim Rankin
Thursday, June 26, 2003

Many already know our story.  I passed it on to PBS,  hopefully they air it.

I am one of 20+ Americans that were mandated to train our foreign replacement workers; in Lake Mary, FL.  Those workers are Tata Consulting(TCS) India employees.  TCS India transfers their employees from TCS India to TCS USA using the congressional H-1b and L-1 "intra-company transfer" work visas.  Their goal,  the jobs we did.    Once the training was completed the Americans were laid off.

Our management brought the Americans into a room and told them they would be laid off.  But first they said, "we want you to train your replacements".  They held out a carrot for the Americans, a severance;  "stay on and we'll give you this severance when you leave."

Now, Is this fair to American citizens?    Believe me, it is happening all over the country and our congressional leaders will not help us.  To name a few,  JP Morgan Tampa, Siemens Energy & Automotive Atlanta, American Express,  Siemens Shared Services Orlando.  In fact Siemens Shared Services used the "L-1" visa to replace their Accounts Payable staff with Indians from India.  It's not just the Information Technology industry that is targeted.

Over 9 months of begging and pleading for help from the likes of FL Senator Bob Graham(D),  FL Senator Bill Nelson(D) and FL Representative John L. Mica(R) have gotten us nowhere.

Tata Consulting India has done this so many times they have become complacent.  They put their entire replacement project documentation( 500MB/800 documents) on the shared drive at Siemens.  Among those documents are the "infamous" knowledge transition documents. 

That would be knowledge transfer from AMERICANS to Indians;  right here in Lake Mary, FL.  Those documents were provided to the DOJ, DOL, INS, Senators and Representatives.  Did they do anything?  Not a chance in hell.

This was the most demoralizing time of my life.  The worst part was not Siemens nor TCS, nor the Indians.  The worst part was the lack of support from our political leaders.

Hillary and TCS

Widespread support of outsourcing jobs from America

support by YOUR Congress!

About 140 Congressional members that belong to the IndiaPAC

Argh! My representative FL District 7 John L. Mica

The scum of WA, Rep Jay Inslee

IL Rep Philip Crane

NY Senator Hillary support Tata Consulting, the same company that is replacing American workers at Siemens FL, Eaton, Ohio,  Cutler-Hammer Pittsburgh,  JP Morgan Tampa and who knows where else

IL Rep Mark Kirk

NY Rep Joseph Crowley

The DOJ letters that basically said we don't care about American workers; we got cheaper foreign ones

Michael T. Emmons
Thursday, June 26, 2003

There is a group of us at Lucent Technologies that have
been outsourced (or insourced) to Lucent employees in
China -- supposedly at 1/3 or 1/4 the cost of having the
development stay in the U.S.  So, I'd be willing to talk to this
producers, and I'm sure there are others here that would be

More of this is scheduled to happen over the next 6 months.


Barb Fleeter
Thursday, June 26, 2003

If this is Bill Moyers - there is noooo waaaaay he is going to show a link between Hilary or any Democrat and Tata.

People who play partisan politics are idiots because inevitably they will support a person or a position that they shouldn't - simply to stay on the righht side of the divider. It's even worse when the person who does this is a "journalist" - and that decribes Moyers to a T.

Thursday, June 26, 2003

I didn't realize that this topic was posted to this website.

If you have a story to tell, please email me directly at so that I can forward your
contact info on directly.

Ron Hira

Ron Hira
Friday, June 27, 2003

There are so many outsourcing jobs in India now, so that Tata and some other Indian companies are outsourcing jobs to places in other countries to fulfill the shortage of workforce. (Anybody in India who can spell COMPUTER is considered a "very good programmer")

Sunday, June 29, 2003

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