Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board

Is it a joke ? IBM Office in J2EE!


mentionned in

I don't see the link between J2EE and a client desktop suite.

Robert chevallier
Wednesday, April 16, 2003

By concentrating on J2EE IBM are missing out on one real gem they have - Lotusscript.

Lotus Script is almost identical to VB6.  I've cut and pasted VB6 code and it runs with hardly any alteration - even with API calls.

I'd says its a lot easier to port VB6 application to Lotusscript than to

Instead they go back to eSuite.  doh.

Ged Byrne
Wednesday, April 16, 2003


Lotusscript is anything but a gem.  In fact it's some of the worst crap I've seen in a long time.  (I'm a notes developer.)  If you disagree, you're a glutton for punishment - which is fine, most notes developers I know, are ;-)

Lotusscript is not cross-platform (on the client, since the Notes client is only available on the Win32 platform) for one, a major issue for IBM as it continues to push Linux in the enterprise.

The development tools available for Lotusscript are 2nd rate (except maybe in the R6 version, it's finally got features that VS97 had (Autocomplete, etc.))  The problem is, most large corporations won't migrate to R6 for at least 2-3 years, so at the moment, the crummy R5 IDE is all you got, and it's barely better than notepad.

>I'd says its a lot easier to port VB6 application to Lotusscript than to

Try writing an app that has a master/detail form with unlimited number of detail rows.  It is not intuitive and not well suited to Lotus Notes.  You would need to create response documents for each row to the master document, but then you lose your in place editing ability by not having the row fields in the master document and you can't add new UI elements/fields on the fly to the best of my knowledge.  In other words, 10x easier in a .NET form and a datagrid.

Lotus Notes/Domino/Lotusscript, etc all have their place, but I can't think of anyone wanting to use Lotusscript over Java in Notes who has any experience with Java.  I may be biased, I've never liked any BASIC-like language. 

My prediction is that lotusscript will move out of the Notes spotlight on the Domino platform in R7 in favor of Java.  It only makes sense since IBM is trying to merge Notes/Domino and Websphere.  I'll take Lotus Formula language over Lotusscript any day ;-)

Wednesday, April 16, 2003

It is implemented in Java. It must be good. No matter that it will run slow as molasses in winter.

If you disagree, you must not be thinking outside the box. You need to be more consumer-focused; more feng shui. (Insert more buzzword-filled nonsense here.)

You contradict hype-dogma at your own risk. Do you want to be put under house arrest for heresy?

Wednesday, April 16, 2003

>It is implemented in Java. It must be good. No matter that it will run slow as molasses in winter.

You've obviously never used Lotus Notes ;-)  It is a usability nightmare and execution speed is very slow when compared to a native win32 app.  Slow for slow, I'll take a cup of Java please.

Wednesday, April 16, 2003

S      L      O        W

Thursday, April 17, 2003


I'm afraid my experience of Lotusscript is restricted to Smartsuite, and mostly 123.

Perhaps I'm biased because of 123s great object model.  When I had to move over to Excel I really missed being able to assing OnChange events to individuals cells and ranges.

I think the language is so close to VB6 that with very little work it could offer an alternative upgrade path to frustrated VB6ers.  Of course, it would need to be separated into a much better IDE with the ability to compile executables, but theres a real market out there.

Ged Byrne
Thursday, April 17, 2003

"IBM can now say, 'Look, you can pay for half the portal with what you'll save in Office,' "

Why would anybody buy a portal if what they want is an Office Application? Or the other way around?

Thursday, April 17, 2003


Personally I would choose Java over VB6 anytime.  However, I know a lot of people who are passionate about VB6.  Also, in my experience there are plenty of companies with VB6 spagetti code that is going to be a nightmare to upgrade.

If these companies could be offered an easier path with long term support, I think they would take it.  As I say, somebody's missing a great big market.

Ged Byrne
Thursday, April 17, 2003

If they base the GUI on SWT, it should be pretty fast. And on the server side performance is not a problem in a well-designed application.

T. Norman
Thursday, April 17, 2003

Has anyone tried the ThinkFree suite? I saw it in my local PC World. It appears fairly basic but apparently it's written in Java.

David Roper
Thursday, April 17, 2003

isn't it (IBM Office) browser-based? Not a local java app/applet? They already threw out the Lotus Components stuff.

I think the idea is that the WP/SS functionality will just be intergated into the web app.

And yes, Lotusscript is painful. Because it's in Notes. Which is a  14 hear old (v1.0 (though Lotusscript only appeared in v4 in 1995)) hack that suffers from it's cross-platform roots. Very powerful but horrid UI.

former Notes developer
Friday, April 18, 2003

whats the heck about the Lotus Script IDE in Lotus Notes? Experienced programmers rarely use the IDE, they use Notepad, Proton, any other simple tool to hack the code. The same with many other languages...the more experienced you are the less you use/need the IDE´s. It could be compared with the mouse and the shortcut faction. Noobs belong to the mouse faction :-))

And the other, beaten arguments that you cant do this or cant do that in not compare apples and pears, plz. VB, Java, .Net, Notes, et cetera have their uses.

The more applications will be published on a .NET technique, the more J2EE answers will be published. Its for the moment a race between the Big Shots (IBM, SUN, Microsoft,..). And thats the reason, IBM rebuild the "eSuite" imho.

Robert Basic
Saturday, April 19, 2003

>Experienced programmers rarely use the IDE, they use Notepad, Proton, any other simple tool to hack the code.

Let me guess, you use vi at work because your boss won't let you code directly in machine language - because really experienced programmers don't need compilers either. 

Get real - microsoft and IBM do not spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build top notch IDEs solely for n00bs. 

Saturday, April 19, 2003

The spreadsheet:

fool for python
Monday, April 21, 2003

-ban hello my name is Raymond I'm a black male age23 don't think it time for a joke cause you some people who take thing's ture to the heart I'm like that sometime
also were are time were all of your talent's are need now to run IBM company at this point we are at war if you didn't know there are just some thing's you don't  joke about or take for disrecpect to the person that made the joke but you have to understand that some people can take thing's from your ex and think that they can do that to any one they see fit so please be care full about what kind of joke you say and it meaning cause belive you me it happen to me and i'm shall paying for it.-removing my banking broker's from IBM also my broker's case worker's from the company also well.

(Raymond Cloud)
Wednesday, April 14, 2004

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home