Dave Winer on CityDesk
And besides, those grapes are sour anyhow.
Self Important Blowhard is the best way I have seen Winer described.
Well, Dave is a king of blowhards, which makes him endearing. But the real cost of Citydesk's lack of XML/browser editing support is how slowly it takes for Fogcreek to build it in if needed.
Mr. Winer says "If Joel doesn't support XML, his users are going to suffer at least a little lock-in."
There's more info relevant to lock-in issue here: http://discuss.fogcreek.com/citydesk/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=867
As his Atomz article shows, Joel would never give away a free editiion of Citydesk unless without lock in.
What exactly does Dave Winer mean by "supporting XML"? Frontier doesn't use XML all that much if I remember correctly.
Part 5 of the CityDesk articles is on the money. It's time to move beyond the browser if you want to build robust, low-latency applications. .Net and other platforms will (slowly) move in and leave browsers with what they do best: display text-based information.
What does Winer mean by "supporting XML?"
There's not lock-in with CityDesk. I think Dave is talking more about "weblog syndication". The CityDesk file format is not terribly proprietary. It's just an Access DB. FogCreek wellcomes you to open it in Access or interact with it in other ways. Would likely be trivial to write an XML translator. What FogCreek has stated is that they reserve the right to change the format. And again, I do not believe it is because they are trying to mess around with developers or lock-in. If you read Joel's (excellent) writing, you get a very fresh approach of making decisions based on what's best to make the product they are trying to make. They clearly have little interest in handicapping their product in order to support hyped-up concepts with questionable benefits.
Even if Mr. Winer's complaint about lack of XML support applies to weblog syndication, that's not a problem for CityDesk. It should be easy to create a template to produce the RSS format. And even if it's not easy, then there's the fallback of reading the Access MDB directly.
More on the XML issue here: http://weblog.masukomi.org/2001/12/10.html.
Yeah, that article wasn't technically correct. It's easy to get your CityDesk data out in XML using any schema you like. Creating an RSS feed, for example, is two steps, documented here:
> Creating any other kind of XML is just as easy.
If you have tidy installed on your system, then you can just add tidy as a menu option in the "preview" menu shown after publishing. This way you could just publish and push a button and your data is in perfect XML (even if you didn't write it that way).
More on this at http://www.voidstar.com
Things are looking up! Dave just publicly mentioned that Citydesk does RSS.
Why is everyone so aghast at the creation of a Windows app? And why does *everything* have to have a crappy Java or HTML front-end and some sort of native XML support (whatever that is)? It's even more surprising given Joels lengthy, public and reasonable explanations about many CD design decisions. Unbelievable.
"Why is everyone so aghast at the creation of a Windows app?"
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