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The Undeclared War Against Programmers

Guys, this seems like a good headline for the subjects being discussed on the h1b thread ( Open Letter ...) which is getting pretty long anyway.

I encourage all of you with an interest in these things to follow it at the political level, and start talking too. Co-incidentally, there was this news item recently about Felten and Simons teaching a technology policy course. Lucky students there.

Other people worth reading are Lawrence Lessig and Jessica Litman. Re the h1b issue, the numbersusa site looks good.

Hugh Wells
Sunday, June 16, 2002

For what it's worth, one incredibly long and repetitive thread was enough for me.

If this thread ends up being just more of the same, maybe you could take it to a politics group next time.

Matt Conrad
Sunday, June 16, 2002

Take one guess as to why companies started hiring progammers and having IT departments in the first place. 
TO CUT COSTS.  Nothing's changed except the target of the cost cutting. 

Sunday, June 16, 2002

Regarding the suggestion that this thread be taken elsewhere, I'd just point out that:

1. No one is being forced to read any thread -- it's not like an email newsgroup where you have no choice but to download it all.

2. The huge number of responses must indicate that it is a matter of great interest to people (developers etc) on this board.

Ed the Millwright
Sunday, June 16, 2002


It looks more like a illustration of the financial incentive lobbists/attorneys and by direct inference pro H1B PAC,
have in keeping the gravy train rolling.

It actually might be worth trying to follow the trial of this money to see where it ends-up.

My quess is at least parts of it end up in campaign war chests.

For those with a bit more wisdom on the topic of campaign finance, what are the current contribution limits for corporations to candidates and PAC's in general?

[repost from: open letter forum]

Doug G.
Sunday, June 16, 2002

Doug G,
I don't have a lot expertise in campaign finance issues,
but I did a search on google and found the following:

Seems to be a self help guide to understanding the various campaign finance related issues.

When you hear all this stuff being discussed by "Talking Heads" on TV, it seems so abstract and esoteric, because I think hey, this doesn't affect me.

Reading through some of the discussion in this forum, actually helped to connect the dots....,
It was like "Hey what's my congressman up to?"

Unethical Leaders, Remember Enron
Sunday, June 16, 2002

repost from [open letter] since it seems the other is really long now

"Remember Eron,"
thanks for the link, good info there.

take a look at this:
the first is actually kinda of interesting seems to give the amounts that law firms/lawyers contributed.

Second link is a by industry snap shot.

So my question is, if all these special interest groups belived so much in fair markets, competitive landscapes and other such jargon, Why do they need to "Buy influence" on policy matters that affect their bottom lines?

FYI: the above just an observation.

Sunday, June 16, 2002

Chairman, The Programmers Guild,
So what are you guys doing to "PROACTIVELY" inform people in the industry of what's going on.

I can't recall hearing anything about your group until this last week.

What approachs are you using to get the message out?

Is there an action plan or is the model more a word of mouth and carrier pigeon?

Sunday, June 16, 2002

Bella, there you go, being a programmer again. "It works like this, ta da." (By the way, I love your contrary posts. Keep it up.)

It's true corporate management wants to cut costs. That doesn't we have to agree to everything they want. If the CEO came round every week and asked for a $100 donation to his or her bonus, and anothe $100 for the shareholders, we would tell them to go jump. But that's what's happening.

Matt Conrad, the theme of this forum seems to be something like: The Culture of Software Development. A lot of the problems people discuss arise from the way programmers as a profession are mucked around by morons and greedy corporate management. So this topic is highly relevant.

Hugh Wells
Sunday, June 16, 2002

I looked at the programmer's guild.  Seems it misses some well-known facts about people in this profession.  For example, people are simply not motivated that much by money.  Therefore on the scale of things, it's just not that high a priority to contribute any time to the guild.  So I suggest they home in on what programmers want.

Plus, it seems rather exclusionary.  Who said people have to _like_ American programmers in general?  ;-P  After all, a lot of programmers are rather antisocial.  And why aren't the mailing list archives public, since presumably anyone can get on anyway?  I'm sure email addresses can be hidden.

A barrier to entry is the whole certification thing.  It's one of the stated goals on the front page.  What if you believe that instead the focus should be on competently playing a role on a useful opensource project?  Or writing something very imformative that influenced many programmers?

And there's a chairman!  Chairman = bad.  No one likes a chairman. ;-)

That said, I wish them luck.  Just not in their current form.

bored of the money impulse
Sunday, June 16, 2002

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