Number of Jobs by Programming Language
Anyone noticed this over at Slashdot? The methodology is a bit dodgy but food for thought if you are looking for a job:
I kept track of this awhile back and in early 2001 there were 24,000 listings for java.
I'd never hire someone or expect to be hired just for knowing language X... If a person can't pick up any unfamiliar language within a week, they're not worth hiring. Unless you are just looking for a warm body...
Dan, that was spoken like a true comp-sci sophomore. If you honestly beleive any programmer can master an unfamiliar language in a week, enough to be productive and write quality code, you're obviously a beginner.
I dunno troy, I have never really even "known" any of the languages I've worked with before being put on the job. I learned C/C++ on a sysadmin job I had in college, and every other job , where I've worked with java, perl, or python, I've just said "i know C++" and got hired. It maybe took more than a week to learn the basic language, but not much. People have these weird arguments about "mastery", but really, you should only learn enough to get the job done. There is no reward to becoming a guru, in most cases...
i've been a programmer since the college sysadmin job where i learned C++.
Learning a language is easy... learning the ins and outs of whatever libraries are tied to the language is another story altogether:
Every job offer in the world ask for Java and VB, and most recruiters add C++ because well "it seems to net the really smart ones." And oh yeah, "you must have 20 years Java experience". I hope everyone understands that one ought to read this report with a (meteor-size) grain of salt.
To be a guru, you generally do need a few years working with the language AND the particular libraries and frameworks associated with the language. So a Java guru would not only know Java's syntax, but would also know Swing, AWT, EJB, RMI, JSP, JDBC, and JNDI. You don't learn all of that well in a few weeks.
I've worked with several guys that were able to learn a new language in a week.
Wither Delphi? And I've never heard of Scheme...
I don't understand how somebody can claim to be a programmer yet never have heard of Scheme. You ought to be flogged.
Scheme is a LISP varient developed for advance AI research during the late 1960's and 70's (at MIT I believe).
A Software Build Guy
When I say "pick up a new language within a week" I don't mean achieve complete guru-level mastery; but I believe one should at least be able to track down problems with a debugger, etc... Also I assume that applicants should be *expected* to already have exposure to each major field of programming languages (e.g. one from the C/C++/Java/C# family, one from the Python/Perl/Tcl family, one from the LISP family, one CPU assembly language, one database query language, etc)... With that background it should not be difficult to adapt to an unfamiliar member of the same families. (a few weeks ago I was asked to fix a broken Java program; even though I'd never used Java before, my experience with C and C++ helped enough that I got it done in a few hours).
It's okay if you have never heard of Scheme. It's okay if you are only conversant in one "world" of programming language/environment. Each world is self-sufficient enough these days that there is no fundamental need to cross over into the other worlds. In fact each world is so large that once you've made a sizable commitment to one world, it requires some serious motivation (your career path requires it, or shooting for guru status) that most people don't have the energy nor time to dig deeply into the other worlds. Nobody can truly be a guru these days in all the software worlds out there.
Golly, Dan, I guess I'm only 3% as smart as you. It's been 9 months with C#/.NET and I'm only now comfortable with my understanding of best practices, performance considerations, interop, the 6,500 CLR classes, deployment and debugging. Think of how much better off we'd be if we hired the "one week guru".
Appologies Dan, for the last post. I didn't see your clarification. Sorry, all!
I'd take those numbers with a grain of salt since the actual number of jobs will probably significantly vary. Not a large majority of companies use only those two job boards (Monster and Dice), and many don't even fill positions through online means at all. Instead most of the openings are filled through current employees who either switch over to the new positions or recommend a friend or family member to the HR dept. for hiring. So those positions rarely even make it to the message boards.
it does only take 3 or 4 days to learn the basics of cell biology. or at least in the biology course i took, that was all the time we had to learn it. ;-)
"I don't understand how somebody can claim to be a programmer yet never have heard of Scheme. You ought to be flogged."
Here you go: http://www.htus.org/Book/2001-11-13/
Damn, now I know my prospects for getting that job writing that CAML application are even lower... Guess I should just stick to my bread and butter, LOGO.
T. Norman wrote, "Somebody from a purely COBOL background, or whose only experience is a Visual Basic job which they got hired for a few years ago without any computer science training (school or otherwise), may not have the background to understand pointers and object-oriented principles, and is likely to have a very hard time working on a C++ or Java project. Observations at my company have confirmed this problem."
One Programmer's opinion
I just love the job listings that want "5 years of .NET experience," or something similar that's completely impossible.
John Topley -- Great sense of humor. We need more people like you, instead of language snobs.
Scheme may seem pretty useless and it probably is. But it's a good way to enter the parentheses based programming world along with LISP and other similar languages. It's nice for developing certain types of rules based and artificial intelligence work, and does the job much easily than something in C++, Java, etc. can since they are declarative languages. But those types of jobs aren't mainstream and will mostly appear only in obscure places like at a space agency, or perhaps when developing AI bots for a video game, etc.
I don't know if we need more people like Topley or not, as I've never met him. I also didn't really want him to get flogged. Maybe joe could use a better sense of humor, or maybe I should have put in a little smiley face :).
I like scheme, and i like paul graham's writing. But the only part of yahoo store written in scheme is the part nobody uses...
er, i meant "lisp"
We definitely need more people like me! ;-)
Sorry, typo. I meant "I don't THINK anybody..."
Delphi's down towards the bottom:
rally - the part that lets you define custom page templates.
That's strange, when I first looked at this thread and clicked on the link, the page had a big graph, now Delphi's clearly visible. Hmmm...too much sherry at Christmas, maybe!
Good thing they got rid of scheme. While it would be nice for scheme to actually be used in real projects, I just doubt that it had so many more listings than lisp. The only large segment of demand I could imagine was from academia.
Not too much sherry John. He changed the site a couple of days ago, adding new languages, presumably including Delphi, and excluding scheme.
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