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I purchased CD for a simple web site, which looks great on my windows NT machine running Explorer, but terrible on an i-Mac running explorer. Have not tried Navigator. I don't know CSS from sanscrit. My template is one word:


Can someone tell me what to put ahead of {$.body$}
to insure consistent font size and indentation? I'm using franklin gothic book, mostly at the #3 (normal) size. My desk top is set up at 1280 x 1024 pixels, which yeilds the scale I want for the web images.

The site is at

John Duke
Friday, April 11, 2003

I don't really know but it sounds like "franklin gothic book" isn't a popular font on an i-Mac.  Smarter folks than me will have to tell you how to get what you want,  but I usually avoid the problem by almost never specifying a specific font.  That way the surfer will see your site in his own default font.

But if you must, specify a font family rather than a single font.  Check out the style sheet for the CityDesk forum, you'll see stuff like this:

font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans serif;  The simple theory is that a surfer's PC has at lest one of those.

For me, if I see a site I like, I view source and try to find what font they are using and use them myself.

Friday, April 11, 2003

There is only two fonts which are on both PCs and Macs: Times New Roman and Courier New. Arial is a PC thing but Helvetica on Mac is almost identical. These are the only fonts that you can rely on to be present on (almost) all computers.
The most common screen resolution is still 800x600 so if you use pictures wider than 780 pixels most users will have to do a horizontal scroll which most people hate so they will probably leave your pages instead.
Many web site owners seems to be quite happy as long as their site looks great on their own screen, but if you want other people to hang around you have to imagine what it would be like to look at your site with their eyes (and screen) ... IMHO anyway. Try setting your screen resolution to 800x600 and call up your site. You may be in for a surprise.
I use a program called BrowserMaster to view all the pages I make at different resolutions.

Jorgen Brenting
Friday, April 11, 2003

I like Dreamweaver's font cascade:

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">test </font>

<font face="Courier New, Courier, mono">test </font>

<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">test </font>

and so on.
Friday, April 11, 2003

The problem in this case is that pasting from MS Word carries whatever Word fonts right into CityDesk.

It can just ruin careful formatting.

Friday, April 11, 2003

Careful formatting is a paper thing. If you want to do serious work for the screen you have to get used to the fact that you can't control the formatting any more. What you can do however is to write your pages in a way so that they degrade gracefully – i.e. do not use fixed widths on tables, do not use pictures wider than 600 pixels (at least not on ordinary pages), do not us fancy fonts, do not use fancy CSS (stick to the most elementary for now), do NOT format your pages in Word (do not use Word at all to write anything for the web other than the bare text).
A few people still have 600x480 screens, others have disabled pictures, others have disabled scripts, some have chosen the largest possible font for some reason. Your page has to look at least organised in all of these cases if you mean anything at all by having a site out there.
Try calling you site from other peoples computers. The fine delicate yellow background that you spent hours selecting, testing and tuning may very well show up white or light brown.
Many people don't know how to update their browser. They still have the one that came with their computer several years ago, but that will not prevent them from thinking that there is something wrong with your pages if they don't show up nice on their computer – and in a sense they are right. The customers are always right ... even in this forum  ;o)

Jorgen Brenting
Saturday, April 12, 2003

Yes, my site fails gracefully down to 570 pixels wide... though it does start to look funny past 640.

Though I haven't tested it in browsers other than IE5 for Windows & Netscape 4.x for Windows, I'm sure it will work nicely in other browsers becuase it only uses the most basic HTML elements.

I set the fonts once with a CSS at the top of the page & let the browser do the rest. If it fails back to Times Roman, or Arial or whatever the user's default font is, it should fail gracefully. Though I think my site look smuch better with sans-serif fonts.

Simplicity is key here.
Saturday, April 12, 2003

Feel free to download my Non-Profit Site Template and snaffle the template's HTML:

From what I can tell, it seems to degrade fairly gracefully across various browsers and operating systems.

Darren Collins
Sunday, April 13, 2003

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