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VANTAA Wizard / Template released

Fully automatic creation of unlimited navigation levels directly from the CityDesk folder structure. Keeps your site scalable and manageable. No manual coding required.

See it here:

Have a nice weekend

Patrick Thomas

Patrick Thomas
Friday, May 14, 2004

360 USD for a template?  Do you think your template is worth $63 more than CityDesk? Honestly?

From your marketing dept. must be on drugs dept.
Friday, May 14, 2004

Patrick, congratulations on the release of Vantaa Wizard/Template. I happen to know how much time and effort providing “the functionality” contained within must have taken.

David Mozer
Friday, May 14, 2004

When you add the price of the wizard and the price of CityDesk, you still have an incredible low priced AND powerful content management system.

Still, I understand the first remark. Small companies, small non profit organisations etcetera are always careful with their money. Maybe a (light) test version wouldn't be a bad idea.

Ruud van Soest
Saturday, May 15, 2004

Comparing the lines of code, amount time spent planning, implementing, marketing, and level of programming talent needed to create a template vs. a content management system, I still can't see it.

Still smokin crack
Saturday, May 15, 2004

i usually buy software (and sometimes i dont use it). maybe i'm a bit compulsive. i have both joel products, and i bought your templates too...

but this one.. is a bit expensive for my budget.

its a good value piece of code, but not cheap for software colectioneers as i am

Saturday, May 15, 2004

That Bob is not me :-)

I use javascript for my menu and for my breadcrumbs.


Bob Bloom
Saturday, May 15, 2004

Thank you all for your comments.

> 360 USD for a template? 

First, VANTAA costs EUR 89 and EUR 249 depending on the license.

Second, there is a discount for existing Wizard users valued at up to EUR 50 (20%, Wizard owners have been emailed about it).

And third, it's not a template primarily: the core of VANTAA is not layout (which is rather "trivial" and there are lots of free templates for that) but

1. choosing the "right" DHTML menu system (not from us)

and even more importantly...

2. integrating it with CityScript

so that it does what VANTAA´s true USP is: automatic creation of unlimited navigation levels directly from the appropriate CityDesk folder and subfolder structure (if not, with a DHTML menu system, you would have to code and define the navigation elements by hand).

What does that mean ?

True scalability. Maximum flexibility when it comes to organizing, restructuring your content and website.

Not having to discard two years of work (old CityDesk site) when a structural redesign is required or appropriate.

And a great look and feel for your site visitors even for the most complex sites.

We have been using CD in lots of different projects for almost 3 years now and what happens is that, as soon as a site requires a redesign or hits a certain volume level - you restart from scratch. Contrary to the "content management" ideal but thats the way it is quite often in reality - still too much coupling, not nearly enough scalability (speaking generally here...).

What got us excited about VANTAA is not "oh, another nice template". No, its the assurance that what we build now, can last. Once you get your hands on VANTAA we are sure that you will experience the same feeling, when actually working with it. Its a totally different way of creating and (especially) maintaining CityDesk websites.

And for the more technically minded: the DHTML menu system and coupling with CityScript is represented in the VANTAA template as a single variable {$.textNavigation$} which includes CSS positioning.

As you see, VANTAA is not primarily about design/layout: Its well decoupled from the template (design) code and therefore easy to integrate in other (existing) designs. You save yourself a LOT of time and effort and guesswork by going with VANTAA, even if you don't care about its design...


Patrick Thomas

Patrick Thomas
Sunday, May 16, 2004

Remains the question of a (light) test version or trial period.

Ruud van Soest
Sunday, May 16, 2004

It still sounds pretty expensive for something that we're hoping the next version of CityDesk will fix. I think I'll wait and see.

Darren Collins
Sunday, May 16, 2004

Darren wrote:
"...we're hoping..."

I guess we are hoping a lot these days around CityDesk, but it stays quiet.

Monday, May 17, 2004

Well, in a sense, Darren, we used to think like you: lets wait for CityDesk 3 (whenever it comes) and see if we can create something similiar, purely with CityDesk's own script language (if).

Until we realized that there is nothing really "to fix":

1. even CD3 will not create a pull-down menu system

2. VANTAA proves that you can do it now

The only thing CD3 might potentially give one is some kind of folder recursion enabling one to traverse a structure of unlimited depth. But even if that was the case with CD3 (we really don't know): THEN WHAT ?

You would still have to integrate it with a "DHTML menu system" (aka Javascript generating a pull-down menu system), so nothing really gained as VANTAA is doing it right now.

And don't forget the major reason for making Wizards in the first place: to make website creation and maintenance extremely easy and fun, even for the "layman" (thats one of the differences between Peter's excellent free CD templates and Wizards, both of which have their place IMHO).

We are just at the beginning with VANTAA and there is lots to explore together as we go deeper :-)

Best Regards

Patrick Thomas

Patrick Thomas
Monday, May 17, 2004

Rudd, thats a good point. We are just at the beginning of documenting, showing and explaining what VANTAA does and where it, instead of a "trial version", we thought of putting up an animated presentation of working with VANTAA (screenshow).

What do you think ? Should it be Flash or Windows Media Player 9-based ?



Patrick Thomas
Monday, May 17, 2004

Please, make it flash based.

Tuesday, May 18, 2004

Done. This first Flash demo (live screen recording) showcases the core of VANTAA, automatic menu generation and easy drag-and-drop reorganization:


Patrick Thomas

Patrick Thomas
Friday, May 21, 2004

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