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IBM in a pickle

Interesting observations - there's a Master's thesis in IT management in this whole situation.

http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/jonathan/20040801#ibm_is_in_a_pickle

Philo [Microsoft]

Philo
Thursday, August 19, 2004

Don't think there is much to be read into that. After all, it's Just Another Blogger and his miscellaneous ramblings.

Still, he's entitled to his opinion.

TheGeezer
Thursday, August 19, 2004

As Sun's COO, Jonathan Schwartz isn't "just another blogger". He's "just another blogger who needs to cut off his dork handle*"


*aka, ponytail

Yet another anon
Thursday, August 19, 2004

>....but the short sightedness to suggest customers source their PC operating system from a little company in the Pacific northwest

That is not shortsightedness...that decision is what made the PC what it is today or we would have had a 100 different Apple incarnations. Not that this would have been bad to say that this decision was shortsighted is incredibly stupid a COO to make and I would discount his other ramblings likewise

Code Monkey
Thursday, August 19, 2004

Sun's perpetual state of Linux envy.  BFD.

hoser
Thursday, August 19, 2004

Seriously, this is just Sun's FUD-rucking.  See the latest market share figures: IBM, Dell rise in servers while Sun, HP shrink (May 24, 2004) http://news.com.com/IBM%2C+Dell+rise+in+servers+while+Sun%2C+HP+shrink/2100-1010_3-5219377.html?tag=cd.hed

Yet another anon
Thursday, August 19, 2004

IBM is suffering from suit disease. It's been a bit too clever pretending to support open source. Made a massive clanger putting SCO source code into Linux and thought it wouldn't get caught.

Watch the ceiling fall over the next few years as the rats desert the ship.


Thursday, August 19, 2004

Sun is so fucked most dictionary publishers are preparing a new entry for the word "fucked" with a picture of Sun HQ.  A year or two from now they will be dicussed in the same context as DEC.

Mitch & Murray (from Downtown)
Thursday, August 19, 2004

Hmm. Microsoft [Philo] using one cometitor to spread FUD about another.

or

Why is Sun fighting with IBM when they should be joining forces against Microsoft?

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 20, 2004

Pretty much my reaction, MarkTAW (the first, not the second). Pretty sad, to be honest; I used to have respect for Philo in his "camel days".


Friday, August 20, 2004

Whats the deal with red hat?
-- all they do is a linux distribution.  IBM can do a linux distribution for their stuff, it isn't that hard to do.
They do not have to buy SUSE or NOVEL or whatever. All it takes is a small team to package the stuff they need to do the IBM IT stuff - they don't need 16 windows managers 15 web servers ad 6 JSEE servers all packaged into one set of cd roms.

Michael Moser
Friday, August 20, 2004

Nice SCO troll.  Did you forget to sign your name, muppet?

Anonymous coward
Friday, August 20, 2004

Whe "google" for things. Pretty soon we'll start "muppeting" anyone we don't like.

Ogami Itto
Friday, August 20, 2004

> That is not shortsightedness...that decision is what made > the PC what it is today or we would have had a 100
> different Apple incarnations.

It was pretty short-sighted from IBM's point of view.  That, combined with their open hardware specs, meant that they had absolutely no control over either the hardware or the software of the PC platform from its infancy.  They spent several years trying to regain control of both the software (via Topview, OS/2, etc) and the hardware (PS/2), but never managed to do it.

Put it this way: IBM developed the PC in order to make huge bundles of cash selling computer hardware, not to create an open platform for other people to make money from.  But how many PCs do they sell today...?

JP
Friday, August 20, 2004

> Nice SCO troll.

Silly me. I forgot. No-one is allowed to endorse SCO's point of view. Oh, wait, this isn't groklaw.


Friday, August 20, 2004

>>Put it this way: IBM developed the PC in order to make huge bundles of cash selling computer hardware, not to create an open platform for other people to make money from. 

Nope, they didn't plan on making a lot of money off the PC. IBM's original intent was to have a PC to sell to their existing customers (and to keep them locked into a 'total IBM' solution).

If they had thought there was a lot of money to be made from PC's, they would have made the hardware hard to clone and have either written their own OS or have had a better (for them) contract with MS about DOS.

IBM's big mistake was underestimating the influence their name brand would have. With the introduction of the IBM PC, companies saw that _IBM_ was introducing a PC so therefore it must be more then just an expensive toy (which is what most people thought of PC's as).

RocketJeff
Friday, August 20, 2004

RocketJeff, even with that stipulated, my point that IBM failed to achieve their ultimate business goals for the PC still stands, I think....

JP
Friday, August 20, 2004

RocketJeff, sounds like a perfect example of "The Innovators Dillemma." Which can be summed up by the sentance:

We're not in the ___ business, we're in the ___ business.

We're not in the TRAIN business, we're in the TRANSPORTATION business.

Can we (90's buzz word warning) say Paradigm Shift?

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 20, 2004

----"RocketJeff, sounds like a perfect example of "The Innovators Dillemma." Which can be summed up by the sentance: We're not in the ___ business, we're in the ___ business."------

There is a marvellous article by John C. Dvorak in the August 17th issue of PC Magazine http://www.pcmag.com/dvorak entitled "The Myth of Disruptive Technology", in which he tears apart the whole concept.

Dvorak is either very right or very wrong, but on this one he's spot on.

Stephen Jones
Friday, August 20, 2004

"Hmm. Microsoft [Philo] using one cometitor to spread FUD about another."

Just a suggestion - when you're going to call something FUD, you should refute it with facts and cites. There's only been one quoted fact in this thread which disputes the story.

I don't post FUD. Generally I will try not to start competitive threads at all for exactly the reason MarkTAW cited. Once in a while I'll post something that I find personally interesting while appears to make sense to me, and I'd like some comments on.

However, if even MarkTAW now only sees me as a Microsoft drone with no capability for independent thought, I wonder if my ability to participate in this forum is done. It was a difficult choice when I took the job - be open about it and trust that the regulars here could still see me as Philo, just working in a new job, or not say anything about it and not be able to share the source of some unique insights.

It appears my trust was misplaced. I should've taken the advice of that book on my shelf:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0395384656/

I think I'll head back to Usenet.

Philo [Microsoft]

Philo
Friday, August 20, 2004

To paraphrase Joel, I'd rather have Philo posting here Mondays and Tuesdays than most of the other regulars put together.

Philo has an interesting point of view, and just because he works for Microsoft doesn't mean he's suddenly the Mouth of Bill Gates.  The guy has a law degree and he went to Annapolis.  Don't you think that if he wanted to make an argument against [MS Competitor] he could come up with something better than, "Interesting observations"?

Hell, even if he *was* posting just to advance the MS party line, would that make the referenced article any less of an "interesting observation"?

And he even called me an idiot once!
Friday, August 20, 2004

Philo, I hope you're just temporarily piqued; you're one of the main reasons I (and I'm sure many others) frequent this board. Even though I occasionally disagree with you, you're obviously smart, thoughtful, and frankly hilarious when you choose to be.

MarkTAW, you might not have really meant to, but you've gone over the line here, and I think an apology to Philo would be the appropriate thing for you to do.  Your decision, of course.

Mongo
Saturday, August 21, 2004

Marktaw, please go sit in the corner. Especially after defacing the board with the long stream of "HA's."

Philo, no-one with any intelligence sees anything in your views except insight, humour and tolerance.

JM
Saturday, August 21, 2004

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