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Rude = No Hire?

Not having been able to find any IT related positions I decided to apply for several non-IT related jobs.

After applying to the non-IT related jobs, I recieved several unexpected offers for IT related interviews.  I contacted the non-IT related companies and asked if I could postpone my interviews with them until I had found out if I got one of the IT jobs.  Well I didn't get the IT jobs so I phoned the non-IT related companies and asked if they were still interested in interviewing me.

They said I was rude to them and could reapply within six months.  I asked what I did or said that was rude but they would not answer me.

Now I'm not a rude person and am very soft spoken.  I just can't believe that they can turn me down and call me rude.  Even if they interpreted what I said or how I said it as being rude it was not my intention to be rude.  (I hope that makes sense.)

I'm wondering if it legal for them to turn people away because they percieve them as being rude?  I would imagine that it is, but I certainly didn't perceive myself as being rude when I asked to postpone the interview.  I think that someone has it in for me.  It's just shocking to be called rude and denied a job becuase of it.  I'm a professional and deal with people all of the time.  I get along with everyone I meet and have never been called rude.


Monday, August 09, 2004

muppet, is this you???

muppet is an ass
Monday, August 09, 2004

It's certainly legal. God help us if the government dictates that being an asshole is a disability that can't be discriminated against.

I wouldn't sweat it. Sounds like someone didn't like. Big deal. Move on.

John Tarken
Monday, August 09, 2004

Yes . Just move on . If you were rude and they were polite, they would have made up some other excuse not to hurt you by not hiring you.

Karthik 
Monday, August 09, 2004

You should have gone on the interviews anyway!!!

It's always better to have multiple offers to choose from than having nothing at all!!!!!

Genx'er
Monday, August 09, 2004

Well the non-IT related job was more or less one of those "have you done drugs?"  if not then you are hired but there was a two week class that I would have needed to take in order to do the job, thus I didn't want to spend my time in that class when I could have been doing the IT related interviews.  But... yea you're right never say no to an interview... which I didn't I just postponed it.


Monday, August 09, 2004

They're obviously pissed that you didn't drop everything and start grovelling at their doorstep because they offered you a slight chance of employment. 

If the middle-management drones are that arrogant, do you really want to work there? ;)

Dan
Monday, August 09, 2004

Or maybe they saw (correctly) that you were willing to drop them the moment something more to your liking came along, and decided to invest in an employee more likely to stick around.

Kevin
Monday, August 09, 2004

Or maybe Kevin is just an asshat!

anon-y-mous cow-ard
Monday, August 09, 2004

"Or maybe they saw (correctly) that you were willing to drop them the moment something more to your liking came along..."

A fair point, but isn't that what the companies are doing by interviewing people? They have qualms in making it perfectly clear that they're not going to pick you if there's someone better.  (Hell, some even make you sit and wait in the same room as other applicants)

So I don't see it as rude. It may, however be detrimental to your chances of being employed by them..

It sounds like the original poster was not very well suited to the job, and their skills would likely have gone to waste at the said company. Sounds like a good result for everyone to me ;)

Dan
Monday, August 09, 2004

I agree with Dan. I had an experience with a well known company in which the middle management drones blew a fuse because I wouldn't cancel a vacation to conduct an interview with them.

Apparently I ended up getting blackballed there, and even a friend of mine who works there couldn't even et me a phone screen. He got some nasty feedback from HR and he asked me "What did you do? Did you piss anyone off?"

From what I can see, I'm glad I don't work there based on the "insider" info I have about them. Their loss.

Michael
Monday, August 09, 2004

Arse.

I meant, of course, "They have *No* qualms..."

Dan
Monday, August 09, 2004

I wasn't trying to be a jerk, and I'm sorry if I came off that way.  I was just offering an explanation that fits with the given information and hiring practices in general.

My point is just that you shouldn't give an employer a reason to believe that you don't take the job seriously, or that you only plan to be there until something else comes along.

I have no problem with the OP wanting an IT job, and no problem with him wanting a non-IT job until the IT job comes along.  All I'm saying is that you don't tell the non-IT employer that what you really want is a position in IT.

Kevin
Monday, August 09, 2004

I don't think it's because I postponed the interview.  They said it was becuase I was rude when I called them.  In other words the person I spoke with percieved me as being rude.  Which I don't believe I was.  Maybe it's their scapegoat for not hiring me.  I think it's borderline illegal.  Obviously I don't have a tape recording of the phone call, but I still don't think it's justified.  If an HR person has the power to say someone was rude to them without evidence (which they can't provide either they just "say I was rude") and then to not give them a job that, to me, is or should be illegal.


Monday, August 09, 2004

"They said I was rude to them and could reapply within six months"

How bizarre.  'We were offended, but only for 6 months. After 6 months we're no longer offended".

That's like hitting on a girl (trying to "pick her up") and getting slapped, followed by "Call me in 6 months".

WTF??

Mr.Analogy
Monday, August 09, 2004

"If an HR person has the power to say someone was rude to them without evidence (which they can't provide either they just "say I was rude") and then to not give them a job that, to me, is or should be illegal. "

Oh geesh...illegal!?

Look, you basically said "Hey, I'm *really* wanting another job, but I'll let you settle for second place if this other company doesn't hire me."

...and then you act surprised that they didn't like you very much!? DUDE! GET A CLUE!

If I were the HR person, I would have told you "Well, we're looking for someone that wants to come to work here, not someone who is only going to come here because they just need a job."

And as for your comment of the legality...Are you honestly suggesting that we create a legal definition of the word "rude" so that the EEOC can come in and determine if an applicant was really rude? If you are that *STUPID* then jot down another reason they didn't hire you.

Really..get a clue. I mean..seriously.

Stalin
Monday, August 09, 2004

That's what I MEAN Mr. Analogy!!  It's really wierd the way they are treating this.  Like they purposely told me I was rude to get me to go away!  The fact is that I would have had to work for them for one year if I had signed up with them.  It is a prerequisite for the position that you sign up for one year if they train you.  Guess it's best if I just forget about it for now.


Monday, August 09, 2004

"Guess it's best if I just forget about it for now. "

Oh no, go get a lawyer and sue them. <snicker> <snicker>

Stan Schmidt
Monday, August 09, 2004

The same people that need the gov't to make it a crime to discriminate based on rudeness, should be placed in the special group of "stupid" and not be given the privledge to vote.

Yo
Monday, August 09, 2004

I'm saying that I am wrongfully being accused of being rude and that has cost me the opportunity of the job.  I didn't curse or swear at these people, I didn't raise my voice or act like an arse.  I simply asked if I could reschedule the interview.  I'm not saying create laws based on rudeness, I am, however, saying that there must be laws that protect people from these random acts that affect other peoples lives.  I believe these people are incompetant.  I'm sorry I don't know the legal terms for this stuff.

Also, there are some very rude people in this thread.  I don't believe I am one of them. I simply came here to start a discussion about this to see if anyone had any similiar experiences or advice.

I'm not suggesting create laws that outlaw rudeness, I am, however, saying that I should not have to sacrifice a job because of a wrongful accusation.


Monday, August 09, 2004

The rudeness comes from saying, in effect, "I have a better opportunity, so I'd like to ditch your offer unless it doesn't pan out, in which case I'll be back."  You basically said to them that their job was a fallback, which some would consider rude.  I know I would.

I don't think you did anything wrong, though.  You played it maturely, and sometimes that has consequences.  Deal with it and move on.

Justin Johnson
Monday, August 09, 2004

Just tell yourself "I'm not rude, they said I was rude, but them telling me I'm one thing doesn't make me that thing." Then forget it, move on, and start preparing for future job applications. Nothing good can come out of focusing on an unproductive event.

robtwister
Monday, August 09, 2004

Golden rule: Those who have the gold make the rules.

trollop
Monday, August 09, 2004

One nightmare scenario that keeps us all awake at night is hiring some idiot who is fixated on how he is going to sue the company for this and that imagined ills. These folks are always talking about how it is illegal to discriminate against people who are rude or ugly or who have a bad attitude. Clearly, they picked up on this from you. I wouldn't hire someone with your attitude, that's the last thing we need. Thus I have to concur with their decision.

Devon Blanchewithe
Monday, August 09, 2004

Hrm... I don't think you guys understand the situation.

I don't have a bad attitude and I don't want to sue anyone.  I'll leave it at that.


Monday, August 09, 2004

The OP handled this all wrong.

Don't postpone interviews because you have other job possibilities.  Postpone your acceptance of an offer, if you need to buy time.

First of all, after the interview they could take *weeks* to get back to you.  Then when they hand you the offer you will have some number of days to respond.  You can ask for more money or more vacation days, which will make them have to communicate with higher management to approve or reject the increase, which again buys you more time.

While you were being honest, it came across as being rude because companies don't like to know that they are less than your #1 priority (even though they are being hypocritcal bastards by doing so, because you certainly aren't their #1).

Lesson learned, move on, don't do it again.

T. Norman
Monday, August 09, 2004

The scorned employer would have categorised you as rude simply because you were not deferential enough. You actually cancelled an interview.

In many non professional lines of work, those sort of attitudes are what people put up with every day. Every employee is a certified arse-licker because they know they won't have a job if they're not.

Be glad you at least have a few choices.

.
Monday, August 09, 2004

After reading this thread, I wouldn't hire you either.

Tell me, are you being rude in this thread? I don't think you're being rude, I think you're being a whiney bastard.

You don't have any legal relationship with the company - no contract, no promise, nothing. Let it go and move on.

www.MarkTAW.com
Monday, August 09, 2004

Your intent is irrelevant. Their perception is everything.  They percevied you as rude. So what. You can't waste time managaing everyone's oprinion of you. Most of them will be wrong.

It was not how you asked. It ws THAT you asked.

Move on.

fool for python
Monday, August 09, 2004

Is this post a troll?

Based on the information taken at face value, I wouldn't say you were being "rude", but you showed quite plainly that your priority was to take an IT job.  The natural conclusion for the company to make is that you're going to keep looking for jobs on the side and hop to a new job ASAP.  Just dealing with the hiring overhead of that would be enough, but if they're also footing the bill for a 2 week training course... totally understandable that they passed on you.

Mr.Fancypants
Monday, August 09, 2004

Did only one company use the word 'rude' or did several?

Rude or not, it isn't a good idea to make it clear that you are blowing off an interview because of the possibility of better offers. However asinine or unfair that may seem to you, it's a fact.

Fernanda Stickpot
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

In the UK it is considered extremely rude to not turn up to an interview, even if you phone with an excuse.

Your excuse, if you can call it that, was extremely rude. I would never interview someone who behaved like that. Game over, in my book.

Nemesis
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

"I'm not suggesting create laws that outlaw rudeness, I am, however, saying that I should not have to sacrifice a job because of a wrongful accusation."

Sacrifice a job? You had a right to it? The employer is withholding a positive, not imposing a negative. There's absolutely no litigational basis here. The only time in withholding a positive that the intent becomes relevant is if there is discrimination based on legally-protected criteria.

You were rude, plain and simple. Let's take this out of a work context and put it into a dating one. You're at a bar and you meet a nice looking woman. You're talking to her and she says that maybe you guys should go for coffee to get to know each other better. You spot a prettier woman that just walked in so you tell the first lady that you're going to go try to get a date with that woman. You further say that you'll be back for that coffee if the prettier woman rejects you.

How do you think the first woman would respond? Most people don't like the position of second fiddle.

Bill Brown
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

but, as others have already stated, this attitude is fine for the employer to have, and understandably so.  The attidude, I mean, that if a better applicant comes along, then to Hell with you.  Why should prospective employees not have the same leeway?  Why do I have to be utterly devoted to your company, while you are only invested in your own interests?  I don't fault you for BEING invested in your own interests, I'm asking why it's wrong for me, as a prospective hire, to do the same.

muppet
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

Why should prospective employees not have the same leeway?"

In Utopia, they might. In our world, the employer has the advantage simply because he has the job and many people want that job. Supply and demand, baby. During the boom, when there were more people than jobs so the roles were frequently reversed.

"Why do I have to be utterly devoted to your company, while you are only invested in your own interests?"

Utterly devoted? That's a bit of a stretch. An employer simply wants to know that you aren't going to just bail 2 weeks after they hire you. Oh yes, I know...But they can dump you 2 weeks later, right? Well, thats an expensive option for them too and as I said earlier, they hold they jobs so they get to make the rules.

"I don't fault you for BEING invested in your own interests, I'm asking why it's wrong for me, as a prospective hire, to do the same. "

I don't think anyone would fault you for being invested in your own interests. Nobody is forcing you to go to work there. If the job isn't in your best interest, then you don't take it. That's how you protect your interests.

On top of all of that, there is basic common sense and diplomacy. As others have already stated, the smart thing to do is accept the interview, then stall if they make an offer.

Mark Hoffman
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

It is really hard to know what is rude and what is not these days, especially if you try to follow the example of other people around you. Other people, and especially hiring companies, are not great etiquette role-models.

And the rudeness of companies doesn't necessarily make the rudeness of candidates any less rude.

I've had companies chop and change interview times on a whim, and generally play those headgames with which we are all so familiar. What that tells me is that I wouldn't dream of working for those companies. Any offers from such companies go directly into the circular file.

This is much more satisfying and efficient than trying to bargain for the amount of rudeness I can get away with. "I'll see your snub and raise you a bit of verbal abuse..." nah... doesn't work ;-)

Fernanda Stickpot
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

It's not true that companies do the same thing.

The comparable situation to the employee leaving after a month because he found a better job would be the company firing the employee and hiring someone else they liked better after a month. That never happens.

The situation where a compary fires someone they don't like with cause is analogous to an employee leaving a company with intolerable working conditions.

Dennis Atkins
Tuesday, August 10, 2004

The OP didn't start a job and then quit in a month.  This is more the equivalent of the company calling to postpone an interview and saying it is because they want to see what some other candidates have to offer first.

T. Norman
Wednesday, August 11, 2004

You can never tell what some people will consider rude.

At a training session in Canada, a guy from Company B working with us from Company A asked some question, why we didn't invite him to breakfast or something, I don't know.  I replied, "Because we don't like you."  Mostly stupid rather than funny; oh well.

Back home, that came up a couple more times later on; e.g. a line in an e-mail from him, "Well, seeing as how y'all don't like me..."  It looked to be an interminable joke that even wasn't funny when it began.

So finally, at an opportune moment during a conference call with us and him I told him that we'd taken a vote and decided we did like him after all.

A day or two later, I get called to my boss's office because someone else from Company B said our guy from Company B had said I was rude on the phone.  Huh?  Here I thought it was the original joke that was rude, and I was just trying to deflect it and kill it off for good.

Apparently it didn't work, and it bothered me for a while.  But with six billion people in the world, even politicians can't avoid being seen as rude from time to time.  So, nameless one, forget about it.

Now if _lots_ of companies start saying you're rude, that's a different matter; you should definitely try to find out what's going on.  But just one place?  Write them off and go on with your life.

Kyralessa
Thursday, August 12, 2004

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