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Confused About Linux

from RH web site:
"Red Hat Desktop provides a high-quality, full-featured client system that is suitable for use in a wide range of desktop deployments."

"The Red Hat Desktop Extension Pack enables mass deployments of 50 clients per package."

"50 Desktop Management Module entitlements    $3500"

OK.  Maybe I'm dense.  But I don't get it.

If I want to install Linux on 50 computers, why do I have to pay $3500 for "50 entitlements"?  Why can't I just buy one copy and install it on all 50 computers.  I thought that was why people were switching away from Windows - to get away from having to buy hundreds of licenses.

M. Night ShammalammaDingDong
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

I'm assuming that you're buying support for 50 installations?  Or 50 retail boxed copies?  I'm guessing, here.  There's absolutely nothing keeping you from DOWNLOADING 1 copy for free and installing it on 50 machines if you don't care about support.

muppet
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

>OK.  Maybe I'm dense.  But I don't get it.

That's precisely it. It is for people who need support because they are dense and don't get it that these options exist :-)

Code Monkey
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

"Red Hat Desktop Extension Pack" looks like a proprietary add-on to help you manage your Linux installations. (Yes, there is proprietary software in the Linux world). Of course there's nothing stopping you from installing Linux yourself or using an alternative deployment system.

_
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

> There's absolutely nothing keeping you from DOWNLOADING 1 copy for free and installing it on 50 machines if you don't care about support.

Doing so wolud be an illegal act that violates copyright law. Red Hat doesn't contribute to open source. Red Hat takes open source work from others, adds their own copyrighted, licensed add ons, and then sells it for more than you would pay for an equivalent set up from Microsoft. That's the only way they can make money.

Didn't you get the memo?
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

<<Red Hat doesn't contribute to open source>.

Excuse me, where did you get this gem?. And second. Red Hat does NOT have proprietory addons. SUSE Linux has them

Karthik 
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

"If I want to install Linux on 50 computers, why do I have to pay $3500 for "50 entitlements"?"

You absolutely do not.  You can put Red Hat linux on as many computers as you wish for no money.

Robert
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

Speaking about Linux:
http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7916

It's a mini report of the first day of the LinuxWorld Expo.

Dewd
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

>Red Hat doesn't contribute to open source.

Wow....looks like take a FUD to JOS day today.

Just checkout http://fedora.redhat.com/ will you?

Code Monkey
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

From the wording, it sounds like what you're buying is a software package that will install linux on 50 computers.

There's nothing wrong with selling a license to that.

www.MarkTAW.com
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

You'd be very silly if you bought that.

saberworks
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Not so silly if you want to install 50 at once, a saving of around 60 hours of a single technician's time just on installing let alone the logistics of getting to each machine.

At a conservative estimate of $15 an hour for an employee to do this that's around $9,000, if it was an external consultant or contractor than use your own multiplier.

Simon Lucy
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

If I remember correctly you have to get a NOT-OPTIONAL, non transferable suport licence for each installation, so just buying one means you can only install 1 machine.

Just me (Sir to you)
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Just Me,

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.  Of course the support license for Red Hat Linux is optional.  You can download the software from their ftp server for free, and install it wherever you like, burn copies, etc.

If you want SUPPORT for all of your installations, then the fee is non optional.

muppet
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Simon:  15 * 60 = 900.

Steamrolla
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Red Hat's enterprise package also includes a nice automatic updating feature to keep your systems patched, and if I remember correctly there's a nice enterprise management tool set to configure the machines from a central location. The ability to have somebody to call is also a nice feature for the corporate support guy who doesn't have time to spend his days fiddling with the source code.

You can still get Red Hat Linux for free via the Fedora project, as somebody else mentioned. I've been using Fedora for a few months, and I really like it. It keeps my system up to date without any serious trouble, and it's definitely the most trouble-free of the four systems here in the house.

Clay Dowling
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Muppet,

perhaps I mistakenly assumed the licence terms were the same as those of RedHat Enterprise Linux, for which my statement does hold:

"Red Hat Enterprise Linux are Linux-based operating systems provided under Red Hat's trademarks subject to the applicable end user license agreement. The term "Services" as used in this Agreement means, collectively, the Support Services and RHEN, each as defined herein. The term "Installed Systems" means the number of Systems on which Customer installs the Software. The term "System" means the hardware on which the Software is installed, which may be, without limitation, a server, a work station, a blade or an engine, as applicable. The initial number of Installed Systems is the number of copies of the Software that Customer purchases. "

...

"If Customer wishes to increase the number of Installed System, then Customer will purchase from Red Hat additional Services for each additional Installed System."

from: http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_us_2-1.html

Just me (Sir to you)
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

I wasn't aware they offered a proprietary Enterprise flavor.  I didn't think that was kosher under the GPL.  I guess you're right, then.

muppet
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

The programs in the enterprise system they charge for are presumably proprietory.

Perfectly legal.

Stephen Jones
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Still, you don't have to use their Enterprise flavor.  Many (free) Linux distros are perfectly suited to an enterprise environment if properly implemented and maintained.

muppet
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

"Red Hat Enterprise Linux are Linux-based operating systems"

As I read and understand the GPL. They can't have thier own proprietary Linux that does not conform to GPL.

Now I'm confused. I assumed that you paid for the support like the the update service(which is realy cool) but could install the software on aditional servers.

I found the licence Agrement for RHE 3

http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_us_3.html?country=United+States&

"...The term "Software" means the subscription for the family of software products purchased under this Agreement and defined herein, if any. ..."

Under "General agreements" they term "Software" as a subscription, and in turn "Installed Systems" as "the number of Systems on which Customer installs or executes the Software"

So if I followed the logic correctly, to have more "Installed Systems" then I have to purchase and install more "Software," which is realy a subscription. This is now more in line with the GPL as I read it.

OMG! If I read the agreement correctly and got it right, does this mean I crossed over into PHB land?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

anon-88
Wednesday, August 04, 2004

Hasn't changed a bit except for some syntactic mojo.
It still says under 4: "If Customer wishes to increase the number of Installed System, then Customer will purchase from Red Hat additional Services for each additional Installed System."

Where "Installed System"  is defined as "The term "Installed Systems" means the number of Systems on which Customer installs or executes the Software. The term "System" means any hardware on which the Software is installed, which may be, without limitation, a server, a work station, a virtual machine, a blade, a partition or an engine, as applicable. The initial number of Installed Systems is the number of copies of the Software that Customer purchases"

Which simply means that the "subsciptions" are per computer and are not optional. You have to buy one "subscription" per system you install. You can't just get one and install as much as you like, as some here continue to suggest.

Some argue "but I can still download it for free", which to me does not mean squat. Do you think you are home free from paying MS simply because you downloaded Windows XP Pro?
The RHEL software would still be bound to the licence. Yes you can download it and look at the source etc., but if you want to install it you have to purchase a "subscription" per installation.

If you are running RHEL without one subscription per install, you better get some quickly, or migrate to a non-enterprise distro.

Just me (Sir to you)
Thursday, August 05, 2004

Regarding RH Enterprise Linux:

You cannot run "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" without paying a support license to Red Hat for each machine it's running on.  However, you CAN run something that is for all intents and purposes Red Hat Enterprise Linux (minus the the RH trademarks) by getting White Box Enterprise Linux - http://www.whiteboxlinux.org

All of the software that is in Red Hat EL is available in source form.  The White Box folks have taken out the RH trademark stuff - logos mostly - and rebuilt the RPMs.

Krybo Amgine
Thursday, August 05, 2004

Anyhow, you ought to be using a Debian distro.  Redhat is really for people who would otherwise choose microsoft.

me
Monday, August 09, 2004

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