Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board




How joel advertise CityDesk

I googled CityDesk and find many links are from personal blogs.
On download.com , the starter version gets 6531 hits from April 9, 2004.


I google "web content manage". CityDesk appears in the second page (25 result per page).

I believe that CityDesk is cool. I just want to know how Joel let others know CityDesk?

redguardtoo
Monday, August 02, 2004

http://www.joelonsoftware.com

Fat Bastard
Monday, August 02, 2004

www.joelonsoftware.com has some stuff just to attract people. That's it. That's why I am here. Some times I feel that his articles are bit exaggerated. Especially when he talks about statistics.

Ramu Karyat
Monday, August 02, 2004

"Especially when he talks about statistics".

Everyone knows that 68.93 % of statistics are made up on the spot.

Nemesis
Monday, August 02, 2004

Seriously though, it seems as if Joel has invested in his blog and forums rather than more traditional advertising.

Only he knows whether this makes financial sense, but it is easy to see how it might work.

Nemesis
Monday, August 02, 2004

78% of people who claim that statistics are made up are usually right.

OJ bin Laden
Monday, August 02, 2004

I think the "Joel on Software" approach to marketing CityDesk is clever. People - often those who are in a position to recommend products within their org - become convinced that Joel, Fog Creek, and CityDesk are all superb, because they read so much that goes on behind the scenes.

Herr Herr
Monday, August 02, 2004

And didn't he advertise in a few magazines?

www.MarkTAW.com
Monday, August 02, 2004

Oh, and he had an affiliate program, but gave up on it (too much overhead for not enough profit).

www.MarkTAW.com
Monday, August 02, 2004

Joel still need to learn about Six Sigma, CMM and ISO.

Ramu Karyat
Monday, August 02, 2004

I was always curious about Six Sigma, CMM sounds interesting too. Care to elaborate?

www.MarkTAW.com
Monday, August 02, 2004

I remember one of the Joel articles was bit contemptous about the Six Sigma and stuff. Sorry, I don't remember the article. I think a company like FogCreek ( as far as I know from the Joel Spolsky blog ) can save lot of money using Six Sigma techniques. May be Joel Spolsky not aware about that.

Ramu Karyat
Monday, August 02, 2004

Sorry, I meant "What is Six Sigma (the Cliff Notes version)? But I'll look to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma to answer my question.

www.MarkTAW.com
Monday, August 02, 2004

Six Sigma is a data-driven management system with near-perfect-performance objectives that has been employed to acclaim at leading corporations like General Electric. Its name is derived from the eye-catching statistical target of operating with no more than 3.4 defects per one million chances, but Peter Pande, Robert Neuman, and Roland Cavanagh--associates in a firm providing Six Sigma implementation, training, and management services--contend its principles can be applied in businesses of all types to routinely reduce costs, improve productivity, increase market share, and achieve other positive results. The Six Sigma Way is their comprehensive self-help guide to adapting and using the system under various conditions. Its first two parts cover fundamentals and provide specific suggestions for aligning the process with individual needs and goals. (These include sections on balancing potential costs and benefits, clarifying objectives, and defining time frames.) The final part, which accounts for more than half the book, focuses on implementation through a detailed yet flexible five-step "road map" tied to a company's core processes, key customers, current performance, "high-potential improvement opportunities," and future practices. While the procedure is quite complex, diligent managers should be able to bring at least basic components to their organization with the tools and techniques provided. --Howard Rothman

Ramu Karyat
Monday, August 02, 2004

Forgot the link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071358064/104-4258425-5323110?v=glance

Ramu Karyat
Monday, August 02, 2004

I've worked on software for Statistical Process Control in the past - companies that make a physical product (e.g. printed circuit boards on a production line) can definitely benefit from six sigma approaches (analysing the process and cutting out defects early stops more expensive issues being raised later).

But I don't see how that can be applied to developing software (which is far from a repeatable, precise process).

Steve Power
Monday, August 02, 2004

Hmm. I remembered that Six Sigma referred to a statistical deviation (or I guess in this case, a relative lack thereof). That part being just a concept, I would imagine the focus of Sig Sigma is on implementation, which is the part I never understood. HOW do you get to the point where your quality control is that good. Wikipedia points out DMAIC and DMADV, but it seems like pretty standard rubbish to me. "Figure out why things aren't as good as they can be & make them better," seems to be all it really says.

www.MarkTAW.com
Monday, August 02, 2004

This is a debate that is going on. But now companies have already remoulded it for software development and they are successful in that.  One such global sofware services company is Wipro Technologies.  See how they have applied it in software development. http://www.wipro.com/aboutus/quality/sixsigma.htm

Ramu Karyat
Monday, August 02, 2004

Any one really familar with six sigma knows it applies to the manufacturing process, not the design process.  General Motors applies six sigma to the making of cars, but not their design.

So, does the manufacture of CityDesk conform to six sigma? Yes.

Can money be saved by applying six sigma to the design process? No of course not and to even ask such a proposterous question doesn't make sense.

Dennis Atkins
Monday, August 02, 2004

Sounds like some people have high-jacked the phrase Six Sigma and applied it to some sound development principles that they recommend. 

I'm guessing they'll tell you to set up a bug tracking system, review functional requirements docs, perform a full code review before signing off a feature etc etc - all good things that stop defects progressing downstream to the customer, but not necessarily anything that a good software shop isn't already doing.

Steve Power
Monday, August 02, 2004

he doesn't. losers like you and I buy from him.

Viral marketing my ass
Monday, August 02, 2004

Bah, this is too easy.

Joel's answer to these methodologies is his Joel Test for companies.  It's in the intro to his article:

---
Have you ever heard of SEMA? It's a fairly esoteric system for measuring how good a software team is. No, wait! Don't follow that link! It will take you about six years just to understand that stuff. So I've come up with my own, highly irresponsible, sloppy test to rate the quality of a software team. The great part about it is that it takes about 3 minutes. With all the time you save, you can go to medical school.
---
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html


So you replace "SEMA" with "CMM SEI" or "Six Sigma" or "ISO"--whatever the original poster meant by "ISO".  Does ISO have software practices that they certify people?  All I remember about ISO 9001 certification was that we were no longer allowed to stack crates as they were fire hazards and disallowed by ISO 9001 regulations.  Whatever.

not convinced
Monday, August 02, 2004

> Joel still need to learn about Six Sigma, CMM and ISO.

Ha ha haaa haaaaaaaaaa! Hooo hoo. Tee heee hee!  Ha ha ha. Oh man, oh man, I'm rolling on the floor.  My gut's gonna split.

Ramu, are you selling a content management system or bug tracking product like Joel too?  If so, Joel's wasting his energy with management process balderdash would be a great boon for your company, I'm certain, as his feature release schedule grinds to a halt and any good programmers he might have decide to leave.

.
Tuesday, August 03, 2004

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home