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Programming Language Popularity

Here's some interesting data on programming language popularity based on book sale data and google ad rates.  Check out pages 47 to 50 of this pdf...

http://conferences.oreillynet.com/presentations/os2004/oreilly_tim.pdf

Scot
Monday, August 02, 2004

Okay, this is just off-the-cuff, but...

O'Reilly publishes excellent books. Top-notch stuff. But - I believe they are viewed as exclusively for the unix domain. I've got a copy of Programming C# on my desk - great book; but I'm not sure I know of any other .Net books they publish.

Next (and maybe this is covered in the first 46 pages, which I skipped) - are the same technologies covered? They're comparing "Java" (Java, J2EE, JDBC, Beans, CORBA, etc, etc, etc?) against "C#" (one language, no framework? Honestly, the category titles alone are telling)

My favorite, my absolute FAVORITE - their final measure is Google Adwords click-through revenue. They claim that Java is clicked-through more than C#. Remember, Adwords are no indication of how often a term is searched, or how often a searched term is clicked - it's only about how often people click the sponsored links along the side. The links that are held by companies that charge money.

So, since every survey *I* have seen put Java and .Net close to parity, isn't it odd that at Google, people are clicking the commercial links for free software more than they are for commercial software? I'm not sure this means anything either way, but it's amazingly ironic.

Philo [Microsoft]

Philo
Monday, August 02, 2004

> O'Reilly publishes excellent books. Top-notch stuff. But - I believe they are viewed as exclusively for the unix domain.

I have been using mostly O'Reilly and Associates books for both major "platforms". They are always done a great job ever since Windows 95 and NT4. You'll be amazed with what they did with Exchange 2000, ASP 3.0 and older stuff--those books were down right authoritive.

Li-fan Chen
Monday, August 02, 2004

It kinda looked like C# and PHP were taking share away from Java and to a lesser extent C.

When I'm working on and OpenSource* project, I feel so neglected by not being baraged by pop-up adds, banners, spyware, that I start to feel as though nobody cares about me.  That I'm a complete hoser.

So, to make up for that, I click on advertising.  It makes me feel wanted.

*The only time I spend on open source is when some driver has bugs and fails to make our closed source projects work properly. Of course, the fixed driver code is submitted back under GPL.

hoser
Monday, August 02, 2004

Oreilly is trying to be _the_ MSDN for open source stuff; they want to sell Safari subscriptions. (see oh, you can search Safari out of eclipse).

- that's why .NET is not their main line of business; they try to cater for the other platform.

Michael Moser
Monday, August 02, 2004

O'Reilly publish heaps of .NET books according to http://dotnet.oreilly.com/

.NET and XML
.NET Compact Framework Pocket Guide -- New!
.NET Framework Essentials, 3rd Edition
.NET Windows Forms in a Nutshell
Active Directory Cookbook for Windows Server 2003 & Windows 2000
ADO.NET Cookbook
ADO.NET in a Nutshell
ASP.NET Cookbook (August)
ASP.NET in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition
C# & VB.NET Conversion Pocket Reference
C# Cookbook
C# Essentials, 2nd Edition
C# in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition
C# Language Pocket Reference
COM and .NET Component Services
Java vs .NET Security (PDF) -- New!
Learning C#
Learning Visual Basic .NET
Mastering Visual Studio .NET
Mono: A Developer's Notebook -- New!
NUnit Pocket Reference (August)
Object-Oriented Programming with Visual Basic .NET
Programming .NET Components
Programming .NET Security
Programming .NET Web Services
Programming .NET Windows Applications
Programming ASP.NET, 2nd Edition
Programming C#, 3rd Edition
Programming Visual Basic .NET, 2nd Edition
Shared Source CLI Essentials
VB.NET Core Classes in a Nutshell
VB.NET Language in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition
VB.NET Language Pocket Reference
Windows Server 2003 in a Nutshell
Windows Server Hacks

Matthew Lock
Monday, August 02, 2004

I'm also inclined to the thought that different language will probably have very different rates of needing to buy a book.  Java and C++, for instance, seem like natural book buying candidates because they're relatively complex languages.  PHP books, on the other hand, have always seemed a bit pointless to me, since the language was so easy to learn and there was excellent online documentation.

Clay Dowling
Monday, August 02, 2004


Actually, the second book I bought from them (way back) was a VB In a Nutshelll book.  The first being HTML IAN.

They have a pretty robust offering across the entire spectrum. 

IIRC, Java has been around since '96 and is community and pseudo-RFC driven.

C# (and the .Net framework) has been around since '01 and is driven by a company *many* see to be evil.  (Not I, I'm pragmatic about it.)

It's simple from there...  Java has been around longer, encourages active involvement, and costs little to get into (a download).

KC
Monday, August 02, 2004

Matthew, this supports my point - were these books counted under "C#"?

.NET and XML
.NET Compact Framework Pocket Guide -- New!
.NET Framework Essentials, 3rd Edition
.NET Windows Forms in a Nutshell
Active Directory Cookbook for Windows Server 2003 & Windows 2000
ADO.NET Cookbook
ADO.NET in a Nutshell
ASP.NET Cookbook (August)
ASP.NET in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition

As I said - I find it really strange they called the grouping "C#" and not ".Net"

Philo

Philo
Monday, August 02, 2004

They were listed at the their dotnet page. http://dotnet.oreilly.com

Matthew Lock
Monday, August 02, 2004

I meant in the survey.

Philo

Philo
Monday, August 02, 2004

Philo,

I like the data because it shows growth or decline for each language relative to itself over the past year.  However, you have a good point about the focus of O'Reilly.

Page 48 shows unique entries for C# and .NET.

Perhaps the clickthroughs for Java are more expensive because of the larger number of commercial packages for Java.  This would not be a function of popularity only, but also the significantly greater lifespan and corresponding fragmentation of the Java market.

Scot
Monday, August 02, 2004

Looking at page 50 he did not include a query for ".net" !!

I just did one, here are the results :-)  I wonder why ".net" is off the charts?

Name/Clicks-per-Day/Cost-per-Click
.net      9,900.0  $0.11
dotnet      33.0        $0.15
C#       530.0      $0.12
C++      630.0      $0.13
Java      2,000.0    $0.15
PHP      1,100.0    $0.15
Perl       520.0      $0.09
Python  230.0      $0.11

Scot
Monday, August 02, 2004

Interesting, I had to set the maximum click-through-cost to be $3.50 before the average ranking position was equal for each option.  Doing that yielded:

.net     10000    $0.24    $2,329.12
C#     520    $0.24    $121.64
C++     630    $0.26    $161.38
Java     2100    $0.36    $754.74
PHP     1200    $0.32    $373.82
Perl     530    $0.16    $84.00
Python     250    $0.17    $41.79
dotnet     35    $0.38    $13.20

Not sure which if this query or the previous is more representative though.

Scot
Monday, August 02, 2004

"It's simple from there...  Java has been around longer, encourages active involvement, and costs little to get into (a download)."

So how do you explain ".Net" having five times as many clickthroughs as "Java"?

;-)

Philo

Philo
Monday, August 02, 2004

Disambiguation...  hey this is a feature you could send over to the MSN guys :-)

Scot
Monday, August 02, 2004

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