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mislead about a job; and what did you do?

i started a new job about 3 mos ago. even though i like the software development co. environment, i feel lied to in the interview. the hiring manager was stressing the whole move to .net, and the framework isn't even installed on people's pc's! in addition, their are a lot of bad/complacent attitudes with my fellow co-workers. the problem being is that no other product does what we do and the company is having good earnings, hence the lazy attitudes.

any thoughts on how to handle it?

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004


Have you tried talking to your boss yet?

dunno
Monday, July 26, 2004

how difficult would it be for you to find a new job?

Kenny
Monday, July 26, 2004

Interviewers often tell job candidates what they want to hear, and vice versa.

It is worth talking to your boss and co-workers, to see if there is a reason for the "delay". It may be due to circumstances beyond their control, rather than some sinister plot to recruit you under false pretenses.

Looking for a new job should be your last resort, although it is an acceptable course of action. You will have to explain to any prospective employers why you were only at your current firm for such a short time. However, I believe that this is a reasonable course of action, so I personally wouldn't hold it against you in an interview situation.

Nemesis
Monday, July 26, 2004

>> ...the problem being is that no other product does what we do.

Sounds like your company needs some competition!  What's the product? :)

CompAUS
Monday, July 26, 2004

I've run into similar obstacles at my company.  We're (very) profitable with our current cusotmer running our "legacy" software.  It seems sometimes that the only ones pushing for the newer technology is us techies.
The arguments I've made thus far are:
  -Dwindling pool of talent willing to work in our legacy stuff.
  -Higer qualified, more talented people, want to work in new technology.

The thing that screamed most to the sales/executive staff was when I pointed out that we're having trouble getting NEW customers without the newer technology.  Once they were convinced of this, the ball started rolling.

Good Luck

Ken
Monday, July 26, 2004

how would it look if i did interview? would i just say, "i was lied to".

the boss has some dream ideas about moving to .net. he talks SOA/webservices and code generation. frankly, i think it is a bit much and isn't really needed. And i feel like managment is scared to start a .net project. IMHO - they should hire an architect, whom wouldn't be working on the day-to-day current app. in 6 mos, the architect would be responsible for a plan on how to migrate.

yes, i could interview. i live in the suburbs of NYC, i could commute into the city.  A big concern is that next year i will start an MBA program. Hence, i feel like when i start the MBA i'm going to be tied to an area (and potentially a job) for a few years.

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004

one other thought, personally, i think we need to do something/anything in .net to get the ball rolling.

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004

I contracted at an insurance software company years ago (around 1994) that instituted the owner's following policy: anyone wanting to develop in Windows would be penalized. DOS developers would be automatically paid better under this policy. They wanted to keep their developers supporting the dying platform as long as possible, and committing long term career suicide was considered to be a noble gesture.

Now, the owner was a egomaniacal turd with no technology background who only got respect as a function of how much he blustered, and I bet that this policy went by the wayside as employees starting shooting out their resumes en masse.

Bored Bystander
Monday, July 26, 2004

Way earlier in my career, I was hired by a communications company. The interview focused on my speciality of the day (PC/DOS, C, assembler).

First day on the job a tech shows up to install a VT220 terminal on my desk, but no PC, leaving me a bit puzzled.

Then I meet with my new project lead. He tells me I'll be working on writing an embedded system database and API for a time division multiplexor.

"Great" I says to him. "Just one question. What's an embedded system and what's a time-division multiplexor?"

It was a very long first meeting

Tom

Tom
Monday, July 26, 2004


Last year, I was offered and took a job that was guaranteed to be 0% travel, located in the next town over, and working for a particular client.

When I went to start my first week, they put me on a train to the actual job location for 2 more months (estimated), 3 hours by train, and for another client.

The only thing that was accurate was the payrate.

I quit after my first week as I was exactly 3 weeks into my marriage.

It sucked and I'm blackballed with that agency, but oh well.

KC
Monday, July 26, 2004

I have been lied to before in job interviews, or rather, led to believe an alternative version of the truth.

I would say it is pretty common, and if you can try to stick it out and see if you can make some of these things happen.  At least it sounds like the person who hired you is wanting to get .NET in the door.  Perhaps he intended you to help that along.

On a similar topic, one other thing I am still actively trying to find out is how to avoid this from happening in the future.  I have tried asking the Joel Test types of questions.  I have asked to speak with developers.  These had marginal success.  To expand on this, I think one thing that is key is to try to speak with your future boss, and at least 1-2 co-workers you will be working with.  Even then I think you may get a false impression, but the chances improve of you detecting something fishy.

Seeker
Monday, July 26, 2004

actually, i do ask about defect tracking system, version control, software development methodology, etc. this they were honest about. i would say that are around a 6 on the joel test (personally, i'm not sure if i agree with daily builds).

yes, the proj. manager has ideas and i do think that is why i was hired. i just feel that we need to write something in .NET to get some momentum going.

i may wait 1 year and then interview.

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004

This is the story of my life.

I no longer believe in the Java version just down the road, or the Windows port that will start any day now.

dot for this one
Monday, July 26, 2004

well that is something that i have learned. i should have asked, "where's the project plan for migrating to .net?" OR "how much of my time will be .net and what percent will be legacy?"

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004

At a previous job, one of the reasons they picked me was my experience fixing source safe problems. They had no version control when I was interviewed, and they still had none when I left 18 months later. They talked about it, and then spent a bundle on PVCS, because that was supposed to integrate well with photoshop and illustrator, but it sat on a shelf for the last 12 months I worked there, uninstalled, and when I got an email from one of the guys who was still there, he said it still had not been installed another 10-12 months after I had left.

Is it really misleading or wishful thinking?

Peter
Monday, July 26, 2004

so when do you know when to leave? or when do you talk with the boss?

i knew what the legacy system was when i joined. but, i thought a reasonable target was that 5 years from now it would be something new. if they keep going as they would, then it won't. when do you draw the line?

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004

Hey, it sounds like you work at the same place as me!  ;-)

Seriously, if you interview with a company that says it intends to do something leading (bleeding?) edge in future and they've got a massive investment in legacy technology you're probably wasting your time joining them.

That's the thing, there's always a carrot to entice you but in my experience you'll be stuck doing maintence in a spaghetti-code, duct-tape and bailing-wide hackers jungle.

If they're currently doing something that interests you, then go for it. Don't fall for hollow promises unless the pay they're offering is damn good.

TheGeezer
Monday, July 26, 2004

i'll probably end up sticking it out for a year. personally, i've been through a lot of changes over the past 6 months . So a little stability would be good. Plus, this will give me some time to study for my MCAD.

Patrick
Monday, July 26, 2004

Fair enough Patick.

If it's low-stress and easy hours then use it as a place to give you time to figure out what your next move will be.

TheGeezer
Monday, July 26, 2004

Who cares about .NET, it sucks?  Try to get them to start writing drivers and real code.

C++ Sucks
Monday, July 26, 2004

It's usual to lie about these sorts of things in jobs like this.

See, everyone wants to get trained to .net and get experience because the only way you get a job these days is to get .net experience. Seriously. I'm reading job adverts over here for UNIX developers to develop for UNIX in C++ and one of the requirements is always "VB"...

Hence, the only way they have any chance of hiring decent people is to fib to them to make the job sound attractive...

After all "Wanted. Maintenance programmer willing to touch our codebase written by now long departed idiots who thought they were geniuses and didn't need to document. No prospects except redundancy when system is finally retired." wouldn't attract a lot of people.

Katie Lucas
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

Dont get me started on job ads, saw one the other day looking for 5 years C#. I don't the alphas have even been around that long.

nakedCode
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

... I dont THINK the ...

nakedCode
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

In two past jobs, I've been told about pension schemes, bonuses and share options all of which never came true.  Worst of all I had one job where all my vacation requests were queried with the fact I always seem to be taking holidays. In fact I had about 2 days vacation in about 6 months. At the end of the year I had 2 whole weeks vacation outstanding. So basically they lied about the vacation days as well - at least the ability to actually take them during the year! I left that job after one year. The pay was lowish and the company actually got an advance of 300, 000 UK pounds for a 6 month project of mine where I was practically the sole developer. I never did work out why this company never felt the need to thank me for the fact I worked about 15 hours a week more than everybody else around me.

Savage
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

What is the company supposed to do, start migrating to .NET without the skills and recruit half way through the project ?

Get real.

If you have the skills you were recruited to assist the process. So assist it. If it isn't happening fast enough for you, make some suggestions, find out why it isn't happening and help fixing it. Then maybe your boss will think 'this guy is proactive and useful' instead of 'this guy is a whinging pain in the butt-hock.'

WoodenTongue
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

i understand your point, woodentongue.

the point is to get this going and i feel like it will never get that way. i feel like the manager is scared.

i've been here for 3 months so it is time that i talked with the manager and see what i can do to help.

Patrick
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

Hey WoodenTongue,

Were you a drill sergeant in a previous life? :-P

Wisea**
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

Leaving aside the acerbic tone, I agree with WoodenTongue.  Go to your boss and say, "I'd like to help with the .NET migration.  Is there a plan yet?  If not, can I help create one?"  And go from there.  Initiative is a good thing.  Though, granted, it's riskier than floating downstream.

Kyralessa
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

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