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MCSD revisited

speaking of the MCSD, and leaving aside ressentiment for people with credentials (dubious as said credentials might be), I've been thinking of studying up and taking the MCAD/MCSD exams as a way of spinning up on .NET and maybe getting my foot in the door on a .NET project.

Have any of you done this?
Is the exam prep material from Microsoft useful towards that kind of goal?
Does anyone who's any good take the MCSD/MCAD seriously or is it the kiss of death?

Brent
Thursday, July 22, 2004

I read the Kalani books and passed the tests up to MCAD while unemployed, learning quite a bit along the way.  I think the proper way to think of the MS certifications is as extra motivation to learn material that you aren't already working with and you want to get into.  But as merely an addition to one's resume, I don't think it is worth it.  Sometimes it will help your resume get noticed, but most technical people realize that there are too many knuckleheads who can pass the test but can't create good software.  Experience will always be king, in the interview and on the job.  And keep in mind that people cheat on these tests everyday, it's very easy to do, so hiring managers are probably wise to give them little consideration.

BW
Thursday, July 22, 2004

The what books?

Kalani
Thursday, July 22, 2004

It's not the kiss of death, but it's also not the first thing I look for in a candidate.  I'm more interested in seeing if they have "the spark" -- that is, a desire to learn and do good work.  I also look for someone who has suffered through a lot of development pain (taught them what *not* to do!)

Heard a good one the other day from a friend who used to be a consultant.  Everyone knows these acronyms:

MCSD -- Microsoft Certified Solution Developer
CCSP -- Cisco Certified Security Professional
CNE -- Certified NetWare Engineer

There's a new one, especially designed for those who have done extensive reading on the subject matter, but haven't yet actually written any production code:

BNE -- Barnes & Noble Engineer

example
Friday, July 23, 2004

Kalani wrote the most popular MCAD.NET study books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/2VJ0RA1Q8QCK8/qid=1090595242/sr=18-1/ref=sr_18_1/103-8597128-7193410

BW
Friday, July 23, 2004

"It's not the kiss of death, but it's also not the first thing I look for in a candidate.  I'm more interested in seeing if they have 'the spark' -- that is, a desire to learn and do good work."

Out of curiosity, why would having the initiative and tenacity to study and pass the MCSD tests not indicate a desire to learn and do good work?

Kyralessa
Friday, July 23, 2004

BNE. Heh.  I haven't come across the type yet; of my past colleagues I'm probably the worst "offender" in that area: when I'm working full-time my amazon bills, I've been told, would support a modest-but-full-blown cocaine habit.

I've personally seen more flailing around from "not-invented-here"-based refusal to do basic background research on a new-to-that-engineer problem than I have from lack of experience writing "production" code.  That could very well have more to do with the hiring practices at my past employers than anything else...

As an aside, some years ago, between real jobs in an economically depressed part of the country, I was making ends meet by sprucing up Access databases, turning ad hoc lists in Excel into Access databases, doing a bit of client-server database stuff when it came up, etc.  One job I had, when I first talked to them, they told me: "The last guy was supposed to be this expert with all this experience, and he showed up with a BOOK!!!"  That gig, I kept my reference materials in the car!

Brent
Friday, July 23, 2004

I spoke to one of our HR people about the value of MCSD recently.  We're a consultancy/outsourcing type of place.

She said ond of the first things clients ask is how many MCSD's the company employs.

Recently I was put forward for a position with a client - the Project Director wanted the MCSD displayed a bit more prominently on my company CV as it's a pure MS based project.

Seems clients at least like to see it ...

blargle
Saturday, July 24, 2004

----"One job I had, when I first talked to them, they told me: "The last guy was supposed to be this expert with all this experience, and he showed up with a BOOK!!!"  That gig, I kept my reference materials in the car! "------

LOL.

Luckily with the internet you can look things up and they'll be none the wiser.

Stephen Jones
Sunday, July 25, 2004

Fuck you Mr BNE
I have several years of "production code" experience and the certifications/books have only helped me.
I'm constantly learning new frameworks and APIs and I highly value people that have like me the greed of knowledge.

The problem with the IT business, is that they put the good for nothing people in the human resources departments, cause they think they are harmless there.

You say that is easy to find a certified that does know a thing or cheated, but I say that is easier to find people that lie in their experience, or people with a lot of experience but with no interest in learning or striving, or just a lack in talent.

John Molings
Saturday, July 31, 2004

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