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How do you rate yourself compared to your peers

I'm curious because I've seen posters like Eric Sink, Albert Kallal, D. Atkins, Bored Bystander, the disappearing Nat Ersoz, Li fan Chen et al who are seems to me very knowledgeable - but I want to know how these guys and others think when they compared to their peers in programming field? Do you think you are above average? "guru"? etc (I know we will get joke answers, but hopefully there will be some serious answers with explanation)

watcher
Monday, July 12, 2004

I'm no guru, but I seem to get things DONE much faster than my co-workers.  I'm not sure they're my PEERS, though ;)

muppet from forums.madebymonkeys.net
Monday, July 12, 2004

> "guru"?

"Experts write code that computers can understand. Gurus write code that people can understand."

Christopher Wells
Monday, July 12, 2004

Everyone (whether they publicly admit it or not) thinks they are better than their peers.

Billy Joel on Software
Monday, July 12, 2004

Not true (as generalizations seldom are).  For years I was quite certain that I was nowhere near the skills of any of my peers.  Then I got a few good long looks at their code.  ;)

muppet from forums.madebymonkeys.net
Monday, July 12, 2004

"Experts write software that computers can understand".

"Entreprenuers write software that customers will buy."

I'm no programming expert.  I just write software my customers buy.

Mr. Analogy
Monday, July 12, 2004

My impression is that a lot of the `big names' on here are solo flyers - either independents or contractors who fly in and out of gigs (which gives a good diversity of exposure leading to some valuable observations). Probably not many of them are in a traditional development team.

Dennis Forbes
Monday, July 12, 2004

One of these days I'll meet someone with business sense who's not a sleaze, and in need of a developer/partner.  Then, then I'll have it made.

muhahahaahaha

muppet from forums.madebymonkeys.net
Monday, July 12, 2004

natersoz??  That screw up couldn't find his ass with both hands.

Oh the stupid things we say which force us to change our web persona.

Back the to topic:

I work with a PhD in physics, and Phd EE, two MSCS's.  I am but a tree slug, munching on the droppings of others.  I have to kick the dog when I get home to make me feel better.  Except my wife won't let me have a dog.

Sometimes I feel good about myself when I can pass some womyn on the bike trail going home.

hoser
Monday, July 12, 2004

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Those whose prejudices that coincide with mine are brilliant, everyone else is a moron.


Monday, July 12, 2004

I do system's work. Networking, communication, security. I am the train conductor. I make sure the servers are on time. I am the sysadmin.

I write code, but mostly, it's back end glue stuff. It's not pretty. It's not in any commercial software package.

but it works.

My peers are amazing software engineers. I keep the platform stable so that they can work their magic.

My peers and I...we are different, but we depend completely on each other. I could not be without them. They could not shine without me.  We balance each other.

I am the foundation that the programmers build upon.

Wayne Earl
Monday, July 12, 2004

I'm the best of my peers, but my peers don't set that high a standard.  They're good people, just more limited in experience and enthusiasm than I am.  Out in the rest of the world, I'd guess I'm about average.

It's a real frustrating point with my job--I'm the guru, and I'm not nearly qualified to be.  I've never had the opportunity to work with one, so I just try my best, but I'll be leaving my job in six months just because I feel my professional development is stunted the longer I limp along in a senior development role.

IS Guy
Monday, July 12, 2004

That's funny. because just a couple weeks ago (to be specific, issue 5.24 at Jun 17th, http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040617.html )
Cringely mentions psycological research which basically
claims that skills, needed to act in a given field are the
same skills that are needed to evaluate your own
position among others. This leads to interesting conclusions
First, the more ignorant a person the more gap between
his estimate and reality (positive gap, that is ignorants
usually value themselves higher than the their true
position). Second, most qualified persons tend to
underestimate themselves because they generously
believe that others are no worse that them.
Read the article:
http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html

Victor Joukov
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

The guys I work with on a day to day basis are scary good.  I am humbled by them all the time.  One is the best programmer I have ever met, and I'm sure I'll ever meet.  Not only does he have huge technical and mathematical knowledge, he gets stuff done.  A lot of stuff.  Then goes home to write articles for C++ Users Journals that are on par with anything I've read in the field. 

christopher (baus.net)
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I come into work do all kinds of personal business, browse, read news, check fantasy sports, even sometimes do work for an external contracting gig a couple hours a day (basically getting paid twice for the same time!).  The last 2 hours of each day I do the work on the project I am assigned to and then shoot off a status email to my boss documenting (in manager hyperbole of course) all the great things I accomplished for him that day.  I leave after 8 hours.

As far as I know my co-workers are working hard for 10-12 hours a day.  I don't feel bad for them.  They choose to do that - for what reason, I don't know.  They are accomplishing the same amount of work I am in that same time.  The do things in stupid ways - they are the type that use the edit menu and the mouse to copy and paste.  They jump into program something and then have to redo and debug it for hours.  I find just thinking about what I will do the last 2 hours of everyday while browsing the web allows me to make good designs on what I do when I finally get around to doing it.  We always ship on time (3 large projects completed this year).  I not saying my co-workers are stupid or not skilled.  All I want to say is they never doing things the smartest, fastest, most cost-effective way.

I don't know how exactly I would rate myself to my peers since I could be putting in a lot more effort but I am at least accomplishing the same amount of work they are in 8 less hours a day.  Unless, they are also even better at appearing to work than I am, they can't be very smart.  My reviews from my boss are fine also.  Which also leads me to have little respect for my boss because he has no idea how easy the stuff we could be doing is.


Tuesday, July 13, 2004

Depends on where I was working at the time. When I was in Texas, I was a lot brighter and more well-read than my colleagues. Now I made the same newbie mistakes everyone makes, but that only drove me to learn more. I was the "fixit" guy that everyone went to with questions.

Then roughly 4 years ago I moved up to the Seattle area and started interviewing and working. I learned just how not-so-bright I really was - I knew Microsofties and just run-of-the-mill programmers who were the proverbial *scary-smart* types. Waaaay out of my league, and at my age, no way to catch up, assuming I had the native smarts to do so. My 26-years of experience meant zilch - these folks were just too fast and too good.

Now if only our management had been as bright....

Michael Ealem
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I am the shiznit!

Fear my power!

B-Rad
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I find it amazing that the Original Poster puts poeple like Albert Kallal and Li Fan Chen in with Eric Sink?!?!?

I have been reading JOS daily for over a year and have found Albert's posts to be very long-winded.  He has good ideas.  He is smart.  But, he cannot effectively commuincate.  For all you know (if he is a programmer) his code works beautifully and never crashes and has tons of functionality (probably too much), but it probably took him a 3x as long to create, and has 1000's more lines of code than an optimal solution.

Li Fan Chen, I truly am sorry to say, has always stuck out to me as below-average when it comes to ideas and questions and answers.  I picture them as a junior programmer.  Maybe as someone with a deep knowledge in perhaps 1 or 2 programming languages but that's it.  Not a developer, not an engineer, merely a programmer.  Many comments made by them are quite inane.

Dennis Atkins and Bored Bystander, on the other hand, actually have stood out to me as people that know what they are doing and are quite intelligent and would be a joy to work with.  Props.

Perhaps we could start a poll listing many of the regulars and ask who we wouldn't mind working with and who we think is intelligent.


Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I'm goin to agree with Cringely's general idea & say that it has more to do with your psychological makeup than your actual ability compared to your peers.

www.MarkTAW.com
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I find it amazing that the Original Poster puts poeple like Eric Sink in with Albert Kallal and Li Fan Chen?!?!?

I have been reading JOS daily for over a year and have found Eric Sink to be suffering delusions of competence.  His ideas are banal.  He is stupid.  But, he seems to be able to effectively commuincate (sic) with the below average crowd.  I don't need to see his code to know it's crap, probably crashes and has tons of needless overhead, it probably took him a 3x as long to create as would take a non-clueless programmer, and has 1000's more lines of code than an optimal solution.

Dennis Atkins, I truly am happy to say, has always stuck out to me as below-average when it comes to ideas and questions and answers.  I picture them as a junior programmer.  Maybe as someone with a deep knowledge in perhaps 1 or 2 programming languages but that's it.  Not a developer, not an engineer, merely a programmer.  Many comments made by them are quite inane.

Li Fan Chen and Bored Bystander, on the other hand, actually have stood out to me as people that know what they are doing and are quite intelligent and would be a joy to work with.  Props.

Perhaps we could start a poll listing many of the regulars and ask who we wouldn't mind working with and who we think is intelligent.


Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I would say that I know enough.

With apologies for the Matrixian reference.

Steve Jones (UK)
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

"How do you rate yourself compared to your peers?"

Grumpier. Older. Fartier.

Grumpy old fart
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

"How do you rate yourself compared to your peers?"

Better . . . stronger . . . faster.

Stone Cold Steve Austin
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I'm equal to my (ex) peers in terms of technical skills but better in leadership, office politics and sometimes - YES - asslicking. I don't feel sorry for them because I have more rapid careers, because it seems to me that they are really not interested in learning the other things beside technical stuff.

Phil Crompton
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

Maybe if I didn't spend time on JoS I'd "get things done".

Naaaahhhh

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

So Phil, how many salads have you tossed? :-P

Wisea**
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

It is useless to question the OP's choice of "The Best of JOS!" as ultimately it is an entirely subjective observation. Basic human tendencies mean that most people will gravitate towards the opinions that mirror their own as being wise and all-knowing.

Dennis Forbes
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

"How do you rate yourself compared to your peers?"
By Height.


Tuesday, July 13, 2004

Better intellectual grasp of issues

A little bad on details

dot for this one
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

Well, technically, I guess if I'm comparing myself to someone exactly my peer, they'd be exactly like me.

I'm just sayin', y'know....

That said, I believe I have a slightly greater breadth of knowledge at the expense of depth, compared to others I've worked with.

Rich
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

I still like the method advocated in that book mentioned 2 threads up:

(1) learn the value of measurements
(2) measure everything you can

( http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=162216 )

It's the only *real* way to compare yourself to your peers, and Freud would argue the original way and at the end of the day, the real thing you're measuring anyway.

www.MarkTAW.com
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

Best:

Bored Bystander.
Pair of Denniss.
Just Sir.
Pair of Jone's
Brad w/ cats

IMO.

hoser
Wednesday, July 14, 2004

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