Java Business Questions
Sun doesn't really make much money on Java. I think they charge for compatibility tests (for J2EE containers and such) and they hvae some Java products they sell such as a J2EE container (which they may have stopped selling).
name withheld out of cowardice
I guess on some level, Sun is trying to create a platform, in the same way MS has, and SAP is trying to in the ERP world. Create the platform, make it ubiquitous, and vendors will target it. Once you get that nice market pull suction effect, you're golden.
Sun started development on Java at a time when creating a programming language in order to sell development tools was a viable business model. Remember, Bjarne Stroustrup sold AT&T on C++ largely as a business opportunity to lead another development market.
I think there was money in development tools, but Sun never made a decent development tool. They all sucked huge. Primarily because they had to be 100% java for dogmatic reasons. Java is good for a lot of things. Writing monolithic desktop apps like a development environment isn't one of them.
Good post, Christopher.
"Why would a proprietary hardware vendor offer its flagship software for running on any platform?"
Good posts everyone. I think we can all agree that Sun botched making money off java in a couple different ways, and even worse, their competitors are making a lot of money off java (BEA, IBM to name a few). Can Sun turn things around? From what I hear, their App Server hasn't done a lot, and I don't hear much enthusiasm for their new IDE they are releasing. What should they do, if it is possible, to start actually making money off java?
My understanding is that Sun is licensing the Java platform (more specifically the J2ME platform) for the embedded/phone market. There isn't much competition there (compared to the standard JVMm also available from BEA or IBM). Each time you buy a device with J2ME technology inside, Sun is getting some royalty (less than 1$ I have been told some years ago from Sun reps)
Sun had an alternative platform and a nice language. Two really neat things. And they did two dumb things. They gave the platform away. And they failed to control the platform on users' machines, so it became a confusing mess.
"Java is good for a lot of things. Writing monolithic desktop apps like a development environment isn't one of them."
On IntelliJ IDEA?
Well, remember, Java was invented to provide a ubiquitous programming model for "smart-devices". In the early 90's Sun was trying to create a new market for themselves by making everday special purpose consumer-computing devices. This idea eventually flopped internally @Sun before ever even going to market. However, after the dust settled from the fallout, they realized they might have something that could be useful.
I guess that .net and java are very similar (to say it mildly).
Yes, Java and .Net are similar. But the idea of compiling to byte code and running in a VM predates Java.
i don't know (may be ignorant) about the class file format, classloader, just in time compilation, reflection, and a batch of other goodies.
... and microsoft probably patented .net attributes, the global assembly, .net security modell, + their particular version of remoting.
I agree with "name withheld".
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