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Computer technicians - not shy geeks after all.

http://www.wftv.com/news/3482551/detail.html

This was an Idaho computer technician, so it may not be the beginning of a trend.  Still, three cheers for Steve!

What're you lookin' at?
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Unfortunately, that's just lending credence to the shy geek stigma.  I've usually found asking them to dinner and/or a movie works better. Fixing the dinner for them works better yet.

Clay Dowling
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Sky geek: downgrade
Creepy geek: upgrade

Not what I'd call "better".

Greg Hurlman
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but the whole "strange guy in a single woman's house physically restraining her for a kiss" scenario isn't one that I'd consider to be generally successful.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Hmm...

Shy = poor social skills but acceptable
Creepy = poor social skills but unacceptable

I guess geeks can choose to be either acceptable or not, eh?

Aaron F Stanton
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Yeah, this is kind of creepy...

not a fan of Steve
Thursday, July 01, 2004


He might not be shy, but he's certainly creepy and I'm surprised he was acquitted. She should have kicked him in the nuts and smacked him upside the head.

Mark Hoffman
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Are we reading the same article?

It says he went there for a house call and when he got there she told him she was lonely and did not have a boyfriend.

Do you think that is just regular passing the time chat??? No! That is a proposition! So to confirm it, he asks her if she wants a boyfriend for 15 minutes. Her response is not noted. he then kisses her twice and asks if they should go to the bedroom. She says no and kicks him out.

This is just standard stuff. The repairman was stupid because he did not realize that she was really hoping he would ask her to dinner or something. Instead, he was stupidly looking for a quick hay jump. Social retarded there!

But he was clueful enough to realize she was coming on to him, just not clueful enough to know what the appropriate next move was.

Do note that he asked her for confirmation twice before advancing and that he respected her request to leave.

Dennis Atkins
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Dennis, you don't get out much do you?

She let him know she was available and wouldn't mind being asked on a date. Nothing there seems to indicate a desire for immediate physical intimacy.

I'm no Cassanova, but I can't imagine how "I don't have a boyfriend" translates to "take me now".

Clay Dowling
Thursday, July 01, 2004

"Victoria Franich said Moyer cornered her, grabbed her and kissed her twice "

Key word here is cornered, Dennis. That's not like they mutually decided to share a kiss. He cornered her and kissed her.

Now, if a jury acquitted him then either they are stupid, or the newspaper is kinda skewing the story to make it sound a bit more sensational. Reading what the news wrote, I just can't imagine a jury acquitted that kind of behavior.

Tada
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Clay,

I guess I didn't come across clearly - I agree with you. She let him know she was available and he blew it because he is socially inept. He made a move, she told him to leave. End of story. No crime was commited.

The whole cornered thing is just her spin on the story. Did he hold her down while having his way with her? That would be rape but we are not talking about that - he kissed her, she complained, he left. No one was cornered.

Dennis Atkins
Thursday, July 01, 2004

"That's not like they mutually decided to share a kiss."

Yeah, he should have had her sign a contract giving consent!!!

How does one 'mutually decide to share a kiss'? How do you do it? Do they sign a form or do you just say "If you care to, I will kiss you now, but only if it is OK." Sometimes that is the way it goes. Othertimes, one tries to check for signals and then makes their move. Again, he was way too early making this sort of move but who knows maybe his last girlfriend went for it and he thinks this works. It works that way in a lot of movies so maybe that's why a lot of people are confused. In any case, he misinterpreted her signals, made his move, and then immediately stopped when she complained.

Does it say he kissed her once and she screamed and he kissed her again anyway? No! So she was somewhat receptive to the first one in his mind, more likely in her mind she was flabbergasted, and he went for another one at which point she asked him to stop and he did.

Again, he was making his move way to early but I think it's generally understood that she was coming on to him in some way.

Dennis Atkins
Thursday, July 01, 2004

"I'm so lonely. I don't have a boyfriend." said from a single woman to a strapping young computer repairman is certainly not idle chatter. If she meant it as such, she is out of touch with reality - probably why she can't find a boyfriend. I would certainly stay far away from any woman foolish enough to bring charges, given the circumstances.

Dennis Atkins
Thursday, July 01, 2004

"Victoria Franich said Moyer cornered her, grabbed her and kissed her twice "

"No crime was commited."

"Grabbed" is assault. Period.

Let's turn this around - strapping young computer guy comes to your house, Dennis. You're engaging in idle chit-chat while he's fixing your computer. You mention that you're kinda lonely because your job is taking up all your time and you can't get out to date much.
He says "hey, you want a boyfriend for fifteen minutes?"
You politely say "no thank you" but he persists, leans into you. Says "come on - it'll be fun" you're backing up, and suddenly realize you're in the corner of the living room. You're at home, alone, and a 6'8, 275lb guy is holding your shoulders. He leans in and kisses you twice before you finally yell "get the hell out of my house!"

You insist he's committed no crime? That there should be no legal recourse to discourage this kind of behavior?

Philo

Philo
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Kissing someone against their will is assault.

I thought she wanted it isn't a defence.

I imagine she was scared and frightened.

Rapists begin their behaviour  in just this way, if she doesn't complain to the police, he puts it down to her getting nervous and changing her mind.  He doesn't evaluate his own behaviour.  He doesn't realise he was wrong.

A similar situation occurs again and he pushes a little more, he's fantasised what happened and what could have happened and now he's ready to assume his fantasy is both reasonable and wanted.

And so on.

Simon Lucy
Thursday, July 01, 2004

Many women are definitely worried about such things; I've certainly been asked to stick around while some guy visits.

It's unfortunate that computers increasingly help people choose when they want to interact with others, yet a computer repairman did this of all people. While I don't necessarily trust this reporter's spin, it certainly is conceivable.

Tayssir John Gabbour
Thursday, July 01, 2004

We can't know all the details, but the jury would. The jury acquitted him. That's the most relevant comment.


Thursday, July 01, 2004


If we take all the fact presented in the article as true we still don't have enough information to know whether a    crime or even an inappropriate action was commited.

It certainly could be a nasty assault.

Each poster who has made a judgement call has added characterisations/descriptions/facts that werent in the story.

The jury (who were mostly men) obviously had much more information and they found the guy not guilty.

The details of this are sufficiently incomplete that people's reactions display their personal emotional triggers and succeptabilities rather than an analysis of the events.

Is it easier for you to imagine a burly aggressive brute or a fickle confused woman who puts out mixed signals and changes her mind while blaming others.

We just dont know what happened.

braid_ged
Thursday, July 01, 2004

It's true we'll never know what really happened.

Regarding Philo's comment, if I told the guy that I was so lonely and didn't have a regular boyfriend -- I think he would get the picture about what I meant. That would be very very different from if I told him that I didn't have a girlfriend. And if he asked if I wanted a boyfriend for 15 mintes and I *didn't* say no and he kissed me, well I wouldn't have anyone to blame but myself. However if at that point I did not want that stuff to happen, it would be up to me to say 'no'. And then he would need to leave. If I say 'no' and he continues, then at that point we could talk about what sort of crimes are being commited.

People need to be aware of the statements they make. Mating does include giving people signals about your availability and interest in them. The problems occur if unwanted advances are made without signals and then 'no' is ignored. At that point we can talk about 'assault and battery' but not before. If you are looking at someone of the gender you are interested in and start telling them that you are not romantically seeing anyone of their gender, that is a universal sign that you would like them to make the next move. If they don't understand that, then we say of such a person they 'don't have a clue' regarding mating. People are cautious so they will usually test things out and move slowly if they are interested. If not interested, then they say "That'll be $20".

Dennis Atkins
Thursday, July 01, 2004

$20 for the computer work, not $20 for a boyfriend.

Dennis Atkins
Thursday, July 01, 2004

I'm sorry, but you can read between the lines any way you want.

Creepy Repair Man: So babe, you got a boyfriend or what?

Attractive Woman: No, Creep.

Creepy Repair Man: How about a kiss?

(cue Psycho music)

or

Attractive Woman: My, but you're handsome. You know, I don't have a boyfriend.

Handsome Repair Man: Really? Would you like one for fifteen minutes?

(cue "chika chika bow wow" porn music)

www.MarkTAW.com
Thursday, July 01, 2004

I went back and reread the article... he was aquitted of *battery*, not assault.

IMHO, they charged him with the wrong offense - it should have been assault.

Greg Hurlman
Friday, July 02, 2004

---"a strapping young computer repairman"-----

No idea about the strapping but the guy was 40. Is that young?

Stephen Jones
Saturday, July 03, 2004

You don't know the definition of either assault or battery do you? It is CERTAINLY not assault. And it is quite unlikely to be battery either unless his kissing the lonely woman was meant to be done 'rudely' or 'insolently', which is not the case, he was well intentioned. So what charges would you actually bring or be claiming he is guilty of all you experts that know so much?

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes/titles/title06/c02a05.htm

a)  A person is guilty of simple assault if, having the present ability to do so, he unlawfully attempts to cause bodily injury to another.

(b)  A person is guilty of battery if he unlawfully touches another in a rude, insolent or angry manner or intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another.

Dennis Atkins
Saturday, July 03, 2004

The prosecution probably focused on it being "insolent" battery. The acquittal would have been based on a determination that it was not insolent, probably given the circumstances of the woman's comments to him.

It would certainly be insolent to walk up to a woman you don't know and kiss her without provocation, unless we have just won the war in europe and one is celebrating.

Dennis Atkins
Saturday, July 03, 2004

I'd cast a vote for socially inept : yes; illegal : no.

When he says 'I asked if she wanted a boyfriend for fifteen minutes,' I don't think he offered his services for a quarter of an hour.  I think it means that he spent quarter of an hour trying to assertain whether she wanted a boyfriend or not.  The fact that he could spend so long asking a single question seems to indicate that she was trying to avoid giving a direct answer: perhaps she was trying to avoid directly saying no because she didn't want to hurt his feelings.

Is this another example of geeks who are unable to understand that another human being may feel differently to themselves.

I am single, I am lonely, I would jump into bed with any member of the opposite sex given the chance.

She is single, she is lonely, therefore...

What is even creepier is that somebody else could say 'three cheers.'

Ged Byrne
Sunday, July 04, 2004

Oh, to clarify the not illegal: "acquitted of battery"

Kissing is not battery.  That's legality for you.

Don't forget that until recently it wasn't illegal to groom children over the internet.

Ged Byrne
Sunday, July 04, 2004

> I think it means that he spent quarter of an hour trying to assertain whether she wanted a boyfriend or not.

Wow! I guess so... always awazing to see an ambiguity like that pointed out.

> What is even creepier is that somebody else could say 'three cheers.'

Yeah it's not something to celebrate - I totally agree he is socially inept.

> Don't forget that until recently it wasn't illegal to groom children over the internet.

What the heck are you talking about? Grooming? You mean like brushing hair and stuff? I don't get it, is this some news item I missed??

Dennis Atkins
Sunday, July 04, 2004

I knew a Steve Moyer many years ago.  That wouldn't surprise me at all of him (nice guy but goofy), may be the same guy.

We used his last name as a joke, since no explanation was required.

Brian R.
Monday, July 05, 2004

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