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Who is on fire?

This is about the thread "Joel is a man on fire"

Just back about reading about the new MacOS it seems that MS is not doing anything much different from MS. I think they even bundle more software then MS and ask money more often then MS for upgrades.

Anyway a lot of Apple's present and past "inovations" were at the cost of ISV's more so then MS who would buy then atleast.

So the question is: "Is MS more "evil" then other software companies (like Apple) or is it just smarter?

somemorone
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Are you asking a question?

Opie
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

HOLY GRAMMAR, BATMAN!

muppet from forums.madebymonkeys.net
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

I think the answer is Microsoft is a lot smarter and a little more evil than other software companies. And as of today, they have a whole army of hobbyists on their side, using low-cost compilers. Between the cheap-wages Indian programmers, Microsoft crushing the ISV's, and the army of Microsoft hobbyists, I expect to be out of a job before winter sets in. Then I'll lose my house.

Think I'll go down to the soup kitchen this weekend. Start making friends with Mike Tyson and a few of the other guys down there. Maybe the soup kitchen has a back office and needs some free programming done.  I could keep my skills up at least.

...
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

BATMAN: Sorry about grammar ROBIN!!

But doesn't MS do what Apple does?

somemorone
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Apple is as Apple does

FistyTheFerret
Tuesday, June 29, 2004


If it's so bad on Windows, why don't you go to Unix/Linux/MacOSX ?

Don
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Microsoft is Evil.

Linux is Good.

Question answered?

Who you callin' OP, Opie?

Fire in the Joel!

Opie
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

  Opie's post was bad
Off-topic and not funny.
    Not even haiku.

Greg Hurlman
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Linux is evil. Open source is evil. In the long term they cause developer rates to drop.

Commercial software is the way to go. At least businesses get used to paying for software.

Mix!
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

> Linux is evil. Open source is evil. In the long term they cause
>  developer rates to drop.

Can you cite any evidence for this?

I have noticed that a lot more web shops have set up using open source projects like perl and PHP. I would imagine that open source has created more job opportunities around the world than the relatively small number of people who work on creating ASP.NET at Microsoft for instance.

Matthew Lock
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

There may be a lot of open source shops, but which companies more money?

Open Source is definitely a means of commoditizing your own product.

With Open Source, if you make your program good enough that it doesn't need any technical knowledge to implement it, what are the customers going to pay you for?

Wayne
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

In the perl case Larry Wall comoditised a scripting language. Now I wasn't ever in the business of selling scripting languages so that didn't hurt me. But perl has enabled me and a lot of companies to sell and devlop products based on perl.

Matthew Lock
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

OK. So you make everything a web app and charge for use of the service.

As a user, I think that sucks.  I'd rather pay for something and be able to run it on my laptop in a cave if I want to.

As a programmer, I think that sucks for many reasons. I like web apps the same as the next guy, but not everything should be done on the web (unless Java starts becoming as easy as Windows development is, of course).

Wayne
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Yes, I agree.  Open Source for Developer Tools is an EXCELLENT IDEA.

The point is, we only share among ourselves, not the users ;)

Wayne
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

> As a user, I think that sucks.  I'd rather pay for something
> and be able to run it on my laptop in a cave if I want to.

This problem will evaporate in a few years when wireless internet is everywhere. Including caves :)

Matthew Lock
Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Microsoft is releasing their major development tools for $50 each:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/29/technology/29data.html

Also, their flagship database program will now be free.

I would assume that the new Bug Tracker is also going to be in the $50 category.

Devon Lanchester
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

"In the perl case Larry Wall comoditised a scripting language."

So Larry made out well developing this open source software you say? Lives in a big mansion does he now?

Devon Lanchester
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

Hey did any language designer get to live in a big mansion? Besides Larry gets paid by O'Reilly to work on his perl books and I think perl 6. That's not too bad.

Matthew Lock
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

Sorry guys but I was not talking about MS vs opensource but MS vs Apple / IBM / RH or whatever other big player.

This news motivated me to post a question here: http://www.maccritic.com/article/316_0_1_0_M/

somemorone
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

"Larry gets paid by O'Reilly to work on his perl books and I think perl 6. That's not too bad."

And receipts from writing technical manuals, those are good paying royalties, you are saying this, am I right? What sort of money we looking at here anyway? Should I quit my job and write open sousrce software and support myself off royalties from the manuals? Is that a good living nowadays? Can it send my kids to college? Will I be able to afford health insurance for my debilitating illness?

Devon Lanchester
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

Devon,

You just don't get it. Progress is best advanced by eliminating the profit motive from software development by providing free, unrestricted access to software innovations.

Supreme Court Justice Breyer said it best:

> 'The Clause (relating in the US Constitution to copyright) does not exist to provide a special private benefit, but to stimulate artistic creativity for the general public good. The reward is a means, not an end.'

The practice of software development is best advanced by removing copyright privledges from all software development, whcih never should have been allowed in the first place. that was a mistake. Soon the Supreme Court will correct this mistake and software will be free, as it was in the beginning. Those who truly care about programming will not expect recompense for eht privledge of working in such a fine field. Those who have a problem with this are those who are not fully committed to the ideal of producing fine software because of its own instrinsic worth.

Freedom is not about doing what you wish. freedom can only be defined in any community as an obligation to grow and develop is a constitution, a collection of rules that governs who can be a valid member of the community, and how they must act. Without rules communities perish.

Stanley Lippman
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

I'm sure I don't know.

Matthew Lock
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

.. to Devon's questions about how much money will I make.

Matthew Lock
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

> Those who truly care about programming will not expect recompense for the privledge of working in such a fine field.

Stanley, who needs to outsource when there are such fine chaps as you available? I've often said the same as you, and it's hard to get people to accept the wisdom of what you and I say.

CEO On The Take
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

Shades of enslaved artisans toiling under their well-heeled Patrons, eh?  OpenSerfs working to the benefit of a corporate elite or what?

Yep, the only field of endeavor worthy of respect and a decent compensation package begins with an MBA I guess.  The rest of us are mere mechanics and menials, chattels and cattle to be used and abused.

Preddie Frinze
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

I'd hardly say open sourcers such as RMS are working to the benefit of the corporate elite, would you?  http://www.stallman.org/

Matthew Lock
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

If Hitler were alive today, I believe he would have created a proprietary OS and proceeded to bundle as much software with it as possible in order to maintain the absolute control of the state.

On the other hand I think if Satan were a software honcho he would create an open source OS and send his minions out to play on human weakness to get them to commit to writing opensource substitues for all proprietary software.

name withheld out of cowardice
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

"The practice of software development is best advanced by removing copyright privledges from all software development, whcih never should have been allowed in the first place. that was a mistake. Soon the Supreme Court will correct this mistake and software will be free, as it was in the beginning. Those who truly care about programming will not expect recompense for eht privledge of working in such a fine field. Those who have a problem with this are those who are not fully committed to the ideal of producing fine software because of its own instrinsic worth."

The practice of feeding my family and paying my bills is best advanced by getting paid for my core competency, and not working for free, which never should have been encouraged in the first place.  Soon the Supreme Court will make it illegal for me to apply my talents and skills directly to making a living, as it has been since the dawn of time.  Those who truly care about their families and their bank accounts will not have the time or resources to be hobbyists in such a fine field.  Those who have a problem with this are those who are not fully committed to the ideals of capitalism, personal responsibility, honesty, integrity, and individual worth.

JT
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

"The practice of feeding my family and paying my bills is best advanced by getting paid for my core competency, and not working for free, which never should have been encouraged in the first place.  Soon the Supreme Court will make it illegal for me to apply my talents and skills directly to making a living, as it has been since the dawn of time.  Those who truly care about their families and their bank accounts will not have the time or resources to be hobbyists in such a fine field.  Those who have a problem with this are those who are not fully committed to the ideals of capitalism, personal responsibility, honesty, integrity, and individual worth."

Poor baby.

You going to tell us that you're such a brilliant, creative programmer but you can't find a creative way to meet your needs without hiding behind twisted copyright law?

Good luck.

Ralph Nader
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

"There may be a lot of open source shops, but which companies more money?"

I give up. Which companies more money?

Opie
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

Isn't Stallman a sort of "Tokyo Rose" baiting people to either cross the line to be nabbed by Homeland Security or opt out of the system and leave more (votes?  civic participation?) for the other side?

I thought the whole SCO-Linux debacle was a clear attempt by IBM to seize control.  Any day now IBM will simply "surrender and settle" and thus backhandedly endorse SCO's claims while simultaneously becoming one of the few (or the sole?) legal Linux purveyers.

Drudy Mialnam
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

Get a grip on reality.

hoser
Wednesday, June 30, 2004

I don't think the Linux kernel and all the GNU tools and libraries suddenly become SCO's property just because IBM settles.

The software in question was never IBM's to give up to SCO.

Also, I don't think IBM will settle under such terms. It looks rather like IBM are going to win this case, doesn't it?

Leauki (Andrew J. Brehm)
Friday, July 02, 2004

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