Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board




I wanna be a grey beard

I am interested in attaining a grey bearded UNIX guru level of knowledge about *nix.  I have a cursory knowledge of Solaris and Linux.  Specifically what tools will I need to master on my journey?

I'm not interested in a flame war or being a zealot for any particular camp.  I want knowledge.  Thanks

tP
Thursday, June 24, 2004

http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ might be a start.

Christopher Wells
Thursday, June 24, 2004

Vi is a must.  Learn the shell.  Be able to use them all but master at least one.  For Linux nothing beats all the howto's. 

Bill Rushmore
Thursday, June 24, 2004


You must speak Perl fluently....er I mean write.


One of my previous Team Leaders called Perl a "write only language"....

Because there's no way you're going to be able to read it later.

KC
Thursday, June 24, 2004

* reject bathing
* walk ... very...  slowly....
* show up at 10AM, disappear for three hours, go home at  1AM
* eat meals only at your desk
* prepare for outsourcing

Sassy
Thursday, June 24, 2004

Perl is only a "write only" language when security-seeking perl developers deliberately obfuscate the code, which is common.

muppet is now from madebymonkeys.net
Thursday, June 24, 2004

I don't know. I use Perl daily, and I have to make a conscious effort sometimes not to slip into "write-only" mode. The syntax just lends itself to writing really concise statements. Sometimes I really do re-write a statement that I _could_ do in one line into three lines so that others will be able to follow later.

Rob VH
Thursday, June 24, 2004

Amen to that.

Kobi
Thursday, June 24, 2004

I wanna be a cowboy!
And you can be my cowgirl!

Yippe yippee aiii yippee yo yo yo!

Dennis Forbes
Thursday, June 24, 2004

What with the "*nix"? Do people do that just to say "I've been around since Unix was a copyrighted name"? Inquiring minds want to know...

5v3n
Thursday, June 24, 2004

No, its because there are so many flippin flavors of unix.

MilesArcher
Thursday, June 24, 2004

Dennis,

Its nice to know someone else knows that tune.

hoser
Thursday, June 24, 2004

> What with the "*nix"?

Actually, it's worse than that. It should be abbreviated *x because that's generally all they have in common. Some likte Solairs not even that. You've got your AIX and your HPUX and your Ultrix, Xenix, Minix... Last I knew there were over 50 flavors of Unix but for the sake of copyright nobody can call them Unix. Linux, it is said, is not Unix but it looks like one and quacks like one and smells like one.

BTW, it takes only one factor to be a grey beard, time. Hang around long enough and the knowledge accummulates like dust on a shelf.

old_timer
Thursday, June 24, 2004

> Perl is only a "write only" language when security-seeking
> perl developers deliberately obfuscate the code,
> which is common.

Or sloppy coders produce average bad code. The problem is that in Perl, average bad is very hard to read.

One of Perl's weaknesses is one of its strengths: There is more than one way to do it.

Unfortunately the maintainer is responsible for being able understand all those ways.

And Perl code is very dense. Some of the operators can replace 1/2 page of "normal" C-style code. So it can be slow to read.

It's like the difference between reading your third grade science book and reading a graduate physics text.

dot for this one
Thursday, June 24, 2004

**********************

What with the "*nix"? Do people do that just to say "I've been around since Unix was a copyrighted name"? Inquiring minds want to know...

************************

As was mentioned, it is mostly due to the multitude of "flavors".

For the copyright, there is no obligation to refrain from using a trademarked, not copyrighted, name in writing.

As in, I had a Coke at McDonald's, is ok, at least legally.

You don't have to say I had a *ke at *ald's.

dot for this one
Thursday, June 24, 2004

old_timer >
"Linux, it is said, is not Unix but it looks like one and quacks like one and smells like one."

If it smell like poop, and it looks like poop, you know it's poop!

Aryeh
Thursday, June 24, 2004

To the OP:  Attitude is everything...

http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.cfm?catid=82&threadid=58095

(see the cartoon attached to the second post)

- former car owner in Queens
Thursday, June 24, 2004

i want to be smart and famous. and rich. what do i need to do? please summarize it in two sentence as i don't like to read.


Thursday, June 24, 2004

Its funny because on the Amiga system errors were called Guru Meditation errors (or something close).

somemorone
Thursday, June 24, 2004

Guru Meditation errors, yep.

I think the fact that you can do in Perl with one line what takes two pages of C code is a huge plus, personally.  :)

It sounds like what you're saying is that because Perl code can be written very concisely, you're unable to follow it because of your foundation (bias) in other languages.  That's not a fault of Perl.

Perl can, on the other hand, be SERIOUSLY obfuscated fairly easily BECAUSE of it's conciseness, but the fact that it is concise it not alone the reason for it being difficult to follow.

Of course, in my case, Perl was the first programming language I ever learned.

muppet from forums.madebymonkeys.net
Thursday, June 24, 2004

O'Reilly's Unix Power Tools is essential.

Inigo
Friday, June 25, 2004

You realise that this means you also have to stop cutting your fingernails...

Simon Lucy
Friday, June 25, 2004

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home