Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board




Working in Canada?

I'm an American, been working as a biz systems analyst for about five years (mostly as an independent consultant) in the US, and am interested in moving to Toronto for personal reasons.  Can anyone comment on the current state of the IT job market (consulting and/or FTE)?  Also, I'd really love to hear from any non-Canadians working in IT who've immigrated to Canada.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Dave
Monday, June 21, 2004


Wages are way below the US.

British Columbia & Quebec are the highest tax payers in North America ...

Stay where you're ...

Spermy
Monday, June 21, 2004


Avoid Toronto too :-)

Too many asians & SARS there .

Spermy
Monday, June 21, 2004

People here were talking about safety on the streets and
about carrying notebooks and other stuff in public and
it just happens that I saw Bowling for Columbine from
Michael Moore [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0310793/]
just recently and there he shows some differences
Canada vs USA.

VPC
Monday, June 21, 2004

I wouldn't use Bowling for Columbine as a source of accurate information about Canada (or anything else, for that matter): http://tinyurl.com/yryzo

Neither would film critic Roger Ebert, even though he agrees with Moore's politics: http://tinyurl.com/33xr6

Nearly Nameless
Monday, June 21, 2004

You can try looking at:

http://www.workopolis.com/index.html

which is one of the more popular sites for jobs in Toronto.

I work (FTE software developer) in Toronto, and the job market seems fine to me. We (Canada) didn't go through a recession as you recently did in the US. So as the US economy seems to be picking up, some say it is Canada's turn to take a dip, while others say Canada will follow the US and go further up (I believe the later).

Generally speaking, the Canadian economy (job market, etc) follows the US market quite closely. Something like 80% of Canada's exports go to the US, so Canada can't deviate too much from the US.

To respond to the previous comments:
- There is no SARS in Toronto
- Toronto is very multi-cultural (I think this is a positive not a negative) but everyone gets along very well .
- Yes, taxes are probably higher than where you are
(on the other hand, hospital care is basically free)
- wages depend on what you're used to (???)
- I've always felt very safe in Toronto, and would have no trouble carrying a notebook anywhere I normally go, 24/7

It's probably best that you visit Toronto, and decide for yourself. Even if you decide against moving, there are tons of tourist attractions in Toronto - so your trip wouldn't be a waste.

Best of luck with your job search!

Warren

Warren
Monday, June 21, 2004

I grew up near Detroit, but when we went to Toronto to play hockey it seemed much colder there, probably because it is really cold there in the winter. Be willing to put up with it (and all the Canadians I met were very nice).

Tom H
Monday, June 21, 2004

If I ever got mugged in Canada, I'd probably break up laughing... they all sound like in the movie "Fargo":

"How aböot your wallet then, eh?"

Lou
Monday, June 21, 2004

Yes, we have slightly different pronounciation. HA HA HA!  Typical that you mention Fargo, as the stereotyped "Canadiana" is actually more accurately Minnesota/North Dakota.

Here's the funny thing: From New York, to New Jersey, to the East Coast of Canada, to Ontario, to Alberta, to California, to Texas, to Virginia, to Kansas, to New Mexico...they all have regional differences. Still is funny though, EH?

Dennis Forbes
Monday, June 21, 2004

I will say that we wnt to Lake Louise in Alberta, and everyone we met during our stay was very friendy. We flew into Calgary and drove all the way out, and we loved it. It was in December, but us native Floridians managed with the cold just fine by layering. We had a pair of thin wool underwear that kept us quite toasty.

My wife and I have tossed around the idea of moving up there ourselves, but think that's a few years away.

CF
Monday, June 21, 2004

I have worked as a developer in Toronto since 96 and I would second Warren's comments that the job market here is still pretty good if you have your act together. I would suspect that immigrating from the States would be easier then say Asia or Eastern Europe with respect to a job search as your experience and references will be more verifiable.  I know of one person who moved to Canada from the States for relationship reasons and did not have any trouble finding work here.

Pay is less then the US, however it is more then enough for a good standard of living by US standards. Taxes are higher but this is somewhat offset by additional services such as healthcare which you would have to pay for in the States.

Gerald
Monday, June 21, 2004

Dennis Forbes, it's just unfortunate that the Canadian accent sounds most like the goofiest U.S. accent of all the bunch you mentioned, eh?

And what's with the whole hockey thing, eh?

Lou
Monday, June 21, 2004

Yes, because accents are objective and I guess we just picked the short straw. I take it that there is no one in the world who would think "that Lou guy's accent is absolutely hilarious!".

Keep on truckin' y'all, eatin' apple pies and watchin' baseball

Dennis Forbes
Monday, June 21, 2004

Wow, somebody's thin-skinned around here.  Did you get beat up over your accent when you were little, Dennis?

Kyralessa
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

Two minutes for nitpicking, everybody.

Geez Louise Eh, what's that aboot ?

Y'all need to relax, hah ?

Hoser
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

I left Toronto to work in Dallas, Phoenix and now California (bay area).  I can't imagine making the same amount of money back in Canada but most of my family and friends are there so I return regularly.

If you are primarily concerned about banking money, stay put.  But if you can put up with the cold & dreary weather, Toronto has a lot going for it including: metropolitan (night life, fashion shops, etc), proximity to nature, multicultural, clean & friendly, etc.

On the healthcare note, Canada's system is free (like the other guy said) but its disadvantage is the high tax rate and the lack of privilege for those with $.  If you have $ in the USA, healthcare is better.

Geoff
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

You think health care is expensive now in the US? Wait till its free...

Yo
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

There are two models of health care system; the free for all system, which you see in Spain, the UK and I believe Canada, and the charge-reimburse-by -insurance system which you have in the US and Germany (in the US mainly funded privately, and in the latter by the State).

Studies have repeatedly shown that for the same level of health care the charge-reimburse-from-insurance system works out 30% or so more expensive.

Stephen Jones
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

Studies have repeatedly shown whatever agenda you want to push.

dork
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

> Too many asians & SARS there .

Do us all a favour, and keep your racism to yourself.  Dipshit.

Happy to be working
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

That's very true Stephen.

Friends down in the states tell me how unfair most of the private insuanace companies are. Up here we pride ourselves in universal health care -- of course this might be be privatized if New Conservative Party takes over in this upcoming election(June 28, 2004)

To all Canadians: Conservativs and Librals don't have the best interest of our nation, vote responsibly. Unlike United States, we have options here. It's not just Coke and Pepsi as in America.

Regards,

Farid
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

I have to laugh at all the generalizations about Canada. While things like taxes are generally the same everywhere, accents, weather, culture, and attitudes in general differ greatly across the vast country.

You wouldn't expect life to be the same in a small town in Kansas to be the same as in Denver or the same as San Francisco, would you?

MilesArcher
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

Hey, if your interested in the west coast, I'm putting my 2800 sq' igloo on the market soon. A cute little place overlooking the ice flows off Victoria. I'll leave a dog team and sled in the garage for you too if you'd like.

Mr E Lurker
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

You will need a special passport (proof that you voted NDP) to get into the Peoples Republic of British Columbia though.

Mr E Lurker
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

Dang, floes not flows ... that's not to say that the ice doesn't flow though ;)

Mr E Lurker
Tuesday, June 22, 2004

Mr E Lurker

Been smoking some Canadian weed eh?

How aboot passing some to us poor folks down here.

abusydude
Wednesday, June 23, 2004

Anybody who votes for the Liberals in the coming election is definitely smoking some mighty strong weed. Those guys have set Canada back a long, long way. 

For the sake the coutry, make sure you get out and vote. For anyone except the Liberals.

Anonymous
Wednesday, June 23, 2004

  > Too many asians & SARS there .

  Do us all a favour, and keep your racism to yourself.  Dipshit

Relax. No one could insult you unless you let them to.

There should not be any problem for you to find jobs in Toronto.

However, unless you stay here for good the tax here it just too high.

Rick Tang
Wednesday, June 23, 2004

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home