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VS.NET bugginess negates productivity gains?

1. The HTML reformatting bug. 
http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma/archive/2003/05/15/7051.aspx

2. The "destroy custom" events bug
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314965

In my opinion these are 'dealbreaker' bugs - bugs with no workaround that cause more wasted time fixing than the time saved by using the tool.

Is this acceptable?  Are we supposed to suck this up and wait for Whidbey?  How can the biggest SW corp in the world consistenyl fail to ship a decent HTML editor?

.
Sunday, June 20, 2004

I wrote an EDI management interface, XML preprocessor, and two websites in VS.Net. I *lived* in that thing for about 18 months. The HTML reformatter was an issue at first, but once I got my head around it, it really was not that big a deal.
There were some other "quirks," some of which annoyed me more than others (like VS.Net 2002 not giving specific SQL Server errors when saving SP's - this was fixed in 2003).

To be honest, I'll take VS.Net over any other IDE I've ever worked with. .Net and the IDE definitely saved me time and effort.

BTW, the HTML formatter is one of the VS.Net team's top priorities.

[disclaimer: I work for Microsoft]
Philo

Philo
Sunday, June 20, 2004

All you have to do is not use the designer. "real web devs" would not be using it in the first place.

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=153707&ixReplies=12

search: "As someone who "

Aaron Boodman
Sunday, June 20, 2004

Disclaimer:  I'm cooler than you.  Peasant.

muppet from forums.madebymonkeys.net
Sunday, June 20, 2004

The IDE is one of the reasons .NET (and VB and Delphi) boosts productivity.

So, in my opinion a good developer:

- should know how to work without the IDE

- should use the IDE as much as possible, in order to get things done fast


The bugs in .NET are also in the .NET libraries, unfortunately. :-( And yes, they do eat away productivity.


People who say that VS .NET is the best IDE obviously haven't used Delphi.

I'm not saying Delphi is a lot better, but it's certainly better.

Jack
Sunday, June 20, 2004

"Disclaimer:  I'm cooler than you.  Peasant. "

Maybe it is that you feel that people who works for Microsoft are cooler than you.

.NET Developer
Sunday, June 20, 2004

That should have been "people who work for Microsoft".

I know, people who know grammar are cooler than me.

.NET Developer
Sunday, June 20, 2004

I used .NET and was able to get prescription V1ÅGRÄ at only $2.50 per dose!

Shilly Billy
Sunday, June 20, 2004

Definately MS should fix the designer. I just meant that the HTML designer portion of the IDE is *so* awful that I've never met a professional developer who uses it.

Give markup a try. You'll like it.

ASP.Net WebMatrix on the other hand is pretty good, and I do like using it's designer.

Aaron Boodman
Monday, June 21, 2004

I used .NET and was able to get your mom at only $2.50 per dose.

I like IDEs because I don't like typing.  But the truth is VS.NET sucks with HTML.  And I've never made a control or page that was at all in-depth without modifying the HTML manually.  So I'm torn, but not enough to stop using the thing.

The fix is to keep complaining, because word on the street is they hear that crap.  Or just brew some coffee and write your own IDE.

Steve Potter
Monday, June 21, 2004

I consider myself a "real web designer" and I use VS.NET for HTML.

Granted, I don't use the drag and drop features, but rather write the HTML by hand. So nothing drives me crazier than when I switch from Design view to HTML view and find that VS.NET has completely muddled up my HTML.

I know it will be fixed in 2005, but it's still a royal pain.

Mark Hoffman
Monday, June 21, 2004

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