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Shocker: Pay rates for .NET developers

Just got a call from a body shop looking for .NET developers for consulting/contracting gigs.  I'm located in a major metro area in the MidWest.

Pay rate?  $30-40/hr.  The lady told me there's not much difference in pay between full-time employees and consultants/contractors these days.

WTF??? I *was* making 3x that during my last consulting gig in 2001 doing Delphi DB dev.  I'm a full-time employee now.

I thought learning .NET would greatly increase my worth, but if this is the prevailing pay rate in my area, then I'm wasting my time with .NET.

Anyone have any thoughts on what a .NET developer (who knows what they're doing) out to be earning?

NoDotNet4me
Friday, June 18, 2004

Sorry - "out" in the last sentence should have been "ought".

NoDotNet4me
Friday, June 18, 2004

I don't know what the situation is locally there, but nationally the rates look to be slightly higher.

Do a search for C# and see the statistical breakdown.
http://www.realrates.com/allsearch.htm

QTExtender.com
Friday, June 18, 2004

Hell, search for '.NET' and the results are much better than searching for 'C#'.

  87 US Dollar Rates found.
  Highest Rate: $175 Lowest Rate: $20 Median Rate: $67.00
  Average Rate: $69.09 Standard Deviation: $27.23

$69/hr is a decent wage for an average developer, if you ask me.

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Friday, June 18, 2004

"I *was* making 3x that during my last consulting gig in 2001"

That was then, this is now.

"I thought learning .NET would greatly increase my worth, but if this is the prevailing pay rate in my area, then I'm wasting my time with .NET."

Why would learning a technology where you are a commodity coder garner you high wages?

The money isn't that bad for .net.

Quad
Friday, June 18, 2004

I was contacted this morning regarding a gig doing a C# / .NET integration into an asset management application for a certain pair-of-breast-looking SoCal nuke plant.  Needed to support 5k users and 100% uptime.  Oh, they needed someone onsite for the interview by 4PM today.

The rate: $30.

In all fairness, the recruiter said "sorry about the rate".

Sassy
Friday, June 18, 2004

" C# / .NET integration"  "Needed to support 5k users and 100% uptime."

Mutually exclusive items they are, I tell ya.

Quad
Friday, June 18, 2004

100% uptime.  I love that one.  That will cost a lot more than $30/hour.

christopher baus (www.baus.net)
Friday, June 18, 2004

"100% uptime"

No, they're just talking about the support people. As in, you never sleep.

Rob VH
Friday, June 18, 2004

As in, if it goes down, we call you, even though the contract is complete.

Sassy
Friday, June 18, 2004

It's negotiation. Businesses jumped on the "recession" bandwagon long before it was true so they could downplay rates. Now that the economy is recovering they're hoping to hang on to it as long as possible ... so they can downplay rates.

The DC/Metro area has seen 75,000 jobs added to the workforce in the past year, while IT wannabes have been jumping ship because the easy cash is gone. Net result - we're going to see a minor labor shortage soon, if not now. Of course, no company will EVER admit that - they could have half their IT dept unstaffed for lack of bodies and they'll still be trying to lowball rates claiming "hey, there's a recession"

Bottom line - tell them the rate you want, walk away if they won't even try to negotiate.

Philo

Philo
Friday, June 18, 2004

It never occurred to me until someone mentioned it--it must be my innocent upbringing.

Do you think every day there are children going by that certain nuke plant on the freeway, giggling, and saying "Look Mommy, look Daddy, it looks just like a pair of boobies!"?

No, of course not. This is America, and children have no idea what breasts look like. They get pixellated out on TV so children can't be corrupted by such scandalous images.

:-)

Ian
Friday, June 18, 2004

I must have a dirty mind then, because the first thing I thought when seeing San Onofre was "hey, boobies".

Mr Fancypants
Friday, June 18, 2004

check out  the first 'Naked Gun' movie for the obligatory San Onofre boobs reference.

"Everything I see reminds me of her"
- Frank Drebin

Sassy
Friday, June 18, 2004

http://www.nucleartourist.com/us/songs.htm

A picture

DD
Friday, June 18, 2004


Hey, if there any experienced .NET developers in the Dallas area willing to work for $30/hour please let me know!

I've been looking for good C# developers here in Dallas and I can assure you that an experienced C# developer is going to pull in more than $30-40/hour.

Mark Hoffman
Friday, June 18, 2004

I just got a perm job paying exactly the same salary as the salary I got a few months before the dotcom crash.  I don't see that perm rates have dropped much.  But contract rates definitely have, not sure why.

Brad
Saturday, June 19, 2004

That's because employment wages are very resistant to falling when the economy sinks.  You can't cut people's salaries by more than a couple of percent without a serious backlash.  Neither can you easily hire new employees for significantly less than what your current ones are making.  So the method of dealing with it is layoffs or hiring freezes.

With contractors it is different.  Rates are negotiated at every signing and contractors come and go frequently, so the fact that a company was paying $100/hr last year isn't a big hindrance to paying $60/hr today.

T. Norman
Saturday, June 19, 2004

Just to add ... US wages have been stealthily cut by over 20% in the past couple of years, due to the devaluation of the US dollar.  Devaluation is the only way that significant reductions in wages can be made without a big backlash. Of course, devaluation can bring its own backlash in a different way.

T. Norman
Saturday, June 19, 2004

> I thought learning .NET would greatly increase my worth, but if this is the prevailing pay rate in my area, then I'm wasting my time with .NET.


If this puzzles you, then you need to open your eyes, and also learn about supply/demand.  When every industry publication harps on .NET, what do you think people are going to read books about?  Now, if every coder has your mindset, then there exists a surfeit of .NET people.  Hence, no big pay rates. 

There is a fundamental flaw in ALL career shortage projections.  The announcement itself affects the numbers of people who shift gears to meet this percieved future demand, and since supply spikes, the shortage never happens.  That is why tech was never going to be the highest neeed career for the next decade, (too much media attention)  b/c so many people read those surveys and picked their college major accordingly.

What truly WILL be the shortage area?  the one you don't read about.,  ie: The one that 10 million other people don't read about.  Farming, plumbing, etc

Bella
Saturday, June 19, 2004

$30/hr would be a great rate locally.  I live one to two hours outside of Detroit, where the economy is hideously depressed (highest unemployment rate in the nation, ignoring seasonal economies). This is probably because anyone who can be trusted with a compiler of any kind can figure out how to write .NET apps.  Not necessarily good apps, but they'll run.

What is nice to see is that C/C++ jobs are picking up, with very good rates.  New college grads seem to be afraid of it, and the junior colleges seem to be avoiding the language completely.  This is excellent news, because while I'm not a genious C programmer, I can get things done pretty effectively and have a couple of good projects to show for it.

Clay Dowling
Saturday, June 19, 2004

$30 is pretty low for a freelancer rate, but the skill set (in this case .Net) is only part of the equasion. 2001 was bubble time if I remember.. I doubt rates will be as high as that again for a generation.

The demand just doesn't exist right now.

I was on $100/hour for classic asp in 2000/2001.

If that not a sign of a bubble I don't know what is!

If you want high rates right now you've got to be pretty special in something rare with an established commerical track record.

Things are picking up at the moment though... If you've been smart over the last couple of years you'll have been learning new technologies, investing in yourself as a product, waiting for the boom times to come back...

oh look, everybody learnt .Net! :-D

Giles Gregg
Saturday, June 19, 2004

Plumbers routinely get $100/hr.
Do you consider that a bubble?

Bella
Monday, June 21, 2004

$100? is that it? You have cheap plumbers! Try living in London... :-)

I don't think you can compare plumbing to writing script. The amount is not the issue. The point is exactly what are you doing for that amount? I mean, divide rate by difficultly of task for bubble indicator.

Giles Gregg
Monday, June 21, 2004

$100 / hr for a plumber?  Maybe that'll be my next field if and when I burn out of software dev.  Added bonus:  plumbing can't be outsourced.

GML
Wednesday, June 23, 2004

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