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JOEL stop watering down your prose!

It made the point a lot better and was funnier when you didn't pull all your punches.

I guess this is a response to all the noise here and people nitpicking every point.

But there are just as many supporters as nitpickers if you look around.

Everybody knows that things are generalizations -- if you didn't talk about generalizations you couldn't say anything at all.  Everything has an exception, even that last generalization.

Just say it like you used to.

Roose
Wednesday, June 16, 2004


I second the OP's opinion. With Joel...<hand raised>

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

I thought it was informative and well done.
What didn't he pummel adequately?

son of parnas
Wednesday, June 16, 2004


Informative it was, but you could see he was taking all the care not to provoke those types. He always had to say, "I am only making a generalization here. I am not talking about you..." and those sort of things as if he was laying defense against premeditated nerd-attacks. Come on, earlier on, he was authoratative, and that was more thrilling. This one was excellent too, but just felt sorry for the way he was talking to those pirates who are never willing to take an argument.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

I agree ... adding a big disclaimer in front of possibly controversial points was annoying.  The people who are supposed to get it, will do so. 

Canuck
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

Yes, don't let the nitpicking nerds win.

Roose
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

So he even gets flak for his efforts to stop taking flak.

Honestly, people, the man can't win...

- former car owner in Queens
Wednesday, June 16, 2004


>So he even gets flak for his efforts to stop taking flak.

Who's lashing out? On the contrary, I was feeling sorry for him.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

Not you, Sathyaish.  But at least two people (including the OP) were taking exception with Joel's new "try-to-nip-inane- nitpicking-in-the-bud" style.

- former car owner in Queens
Wednesday, June 16, 2004


I, for one, love a good pummeling.

A Dingo Ate My Baby
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

I think the 'Ask Joel' forum (now closed, I believe, certainly the link on the home page has been removed) had several major troll-flames on it.

Thus Joel's "apology" regarding perfectionism, and his attempt (nicely done, I thought) to head off the more extreme insult-prone members by putting in caveats.

On the one hand, I think his prose flows much better without the caveats -- it would be nice if people would cut him enough slack that the caveats were not needed.

On the other hand, I think recent experience has shown a subset of people are not willing to do this.  So for now he is using the disclaimers.  I think he will find the people insulted by his normal prose will ignore the disclaimers, but time will tell.

AllanL5
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Once you reach a certain level of notoriety, you might as well just accept that fact that there are going to be people who take you out of context, people who misquote you, people who just distort everything you say...

ALL of which has happened to Joel.

But you can't let that stop you from doing what you need to do!

If the president of the US backed down at every slight criticism... well then... bad example.

Roose
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

I have to agree, all the stuff in brackets did seem too much.

Just tell it as you see it, that's what we all want to read.

Who cares if a few people get annoyed and respond? Surely, you're man enough to take it, even if people don't agree with you all the time.

Steve Jones (UK)
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

"Once you reach a certain level of notoriety, you might as well just accept that fact that there are going to be people who take you out of context, people who misquote you, people who just distort everything you say..."

I haven't found that to be true at all...

Philo

Philo
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

Personally, I would have prefered the un-watered down version of the article myself, but who's complaining. It's still a great article and Joel still writes very insightfully. Until I walk a mile in his shoes, I'll avoid judging or second-guessing the man. Just relax and enjoy the articles.

robtwister
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

No one's judging him, just giving feedback.  I feel bad that this noisy mass of whiners has caused Joel to back down a bit and pollute his normally excellent writing.

Roose
Wednesday, June 16, 2004

Good point Roose, I'm with  you there. Sometimes a "don't give a shit" attitude is best. I just want to take it easy on the Man.

robtwister
Thursday, June 17, 2004

Roose:
  You said there are many supporters if you look around.

If you think about the way humans are, this means that there are TONS of supporters.  When you read something you like, people tend to go "Cool." and not provide any feed back, but when you read something even slightly upsetting, then people react and need "their side" to be heard.  I think the fact that so many people write in support of Joel shows just how incredible of an author he is (This post included, given that I've read all of his stuff, and this is the first feedback I've provided).

Steamrolla
Thursday, June 17, 2004

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