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http://news.com.com/Pop-up+toolbar+spreads+via+IE+flaws/2100-1002_3-5229707.html?tag=nefd.top

UP AGAINST THE WALL!  Much like drug dealers lose the proceeds of their crime, these dirtbags should have their assets repossessd. Mind you I'm glad I use Mozilla, as a pop-up ad proggie is about the least damaging of an exploit possible.

http://news.com.com/Oracle+urges+customers+to+patch+Web+apps/2100-1002_3-5230606.html?tag=nefd.top

...but it isn't just Microsoft with security problems.

On a totally unrelated topic, in my area (Southern Ontario) another child has died inside a parked vehicle, and speculation has to naturally be that heat stroke was a culprit (it was one of the first hot days). Every year I hear about dozens of cases of small children or animals dying inside of vehicles, and it's just overwhelmingly tragic.

So I challenge you, JOSers, to create a occupancy detection system that detects a "life force" inside a vehicle (dog, child, sleeping drunken adult...whatever), and signals an alarm/lowers windows if the temperature goes too high or remains above an excessive level for a period. With all of the technology that we have, the fact that a small child can die inside of a parked vehicle is simply unacceptable.

Dennis Forbes
Thursday, June 10, 2004

My 745Li will open the sunroof when it gets too hot in there....

Yo
Thursday, June 10, 2004

"...detects a "life force" inside a vehicle..."

This is already done as well....my pickup truck (Chevy) "knows" (by weight) what is sitting in the front seat and enables/disables the pass airbag accordingly...

Yo
Thursday, June 10, 2004

In all honesty, it can't be healthy for the internals of the car itself (dash, seat, airbags, CD's, etc) to spend much time above 130 degrees.

So I'd think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have as standard equipment:
- circulation fans that automatically turn on to move air through when the engine is off and temps reach a certain level
- if the engine is on, automatically turn on the A/C
- (more 21st century) automatic window tinting when the engine is off (good idea for security as well)

For the "there's a body in the car and the temp is over 120" I'd honestly add an external "please help" alarm - there can't be a time when that would be good.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, June 10, 2004

I can't find it now, but the public safety equipment company we used to order from had a system for police K9 units. If the temperature in the car reached a certain point, it would roll down the window(s) and send out a page. Granted, it didn't know if you did or didn't have someone in the vehicle, but I thought it was a darn good idea.

CF
Thursday, June 10, 2004

Dennis, I doubt you'd be so fond of asset forfeiture laws if you knew how they were really being used.

Troy King
Thursday, June 10, 2004

I've heard about this happening in this area (northern CA) too. I wonder what the prevalence of similar accidents when the temperature gets too cold.

Off the top of my head, I would think that a CO2 detector might do the trick, but it would have to be pretty sensitive to differentiate between the normal amount and the excess given off by respiration. It would have to be able to calibrate itself for different altitudes too.

Other options, vibration? IR detection is probably a bad idea given the temp involved. Motion detection likewise not very effective given the likelyhood that the being in question is likely still.

MilesArcher
Thursday, June 10, 2004

"when the temperature gets too cold."

Probably not too high - it doesn't take long for temperature in a car to skyrocket, and living things are far more susceptible to high temperatures than to low.  It just takes a lot longer to freeze than to burn up in most situations.  That added time increases the chances that someone will save the lving thing in danger.

anon
Thursday, June 10, 2004

Put a simple button in the middle of the car, and connect the "open sunroof" wires to the button.

Glue a picture of a full glass of water (with ice cubes) to the button.

If you're thirsty enough to lick a picture of water, you're probably in need of some ventilation.

Edward
Thursday, June 10, 2004

There are other ways to deal with this problem.

In NSW, Australia, it's a serious offence to leave children alone in a car, especially on a hot day. We've had children die from this.

If people encounter children locked in a car on a hot day, they will generally call the police. If tradesmen or action-types are nearby, they will probably smash the windows to let the children cool down.

echidna
Thursday, June 10, 2004

When it's freezing out, people generally don't leave pets and children in cars.  We're conditioned to be afraid of freezing to death, but for some reason we just don't think about the possibility of immediate death by overheating and dehydration.  It's the same reason that so many people get skin cancer from tanning excessively and not using sunscreen...we just aren't as afraid of the sun as we should be.

I guess culturally/historically we've associated warmth-sun-life together, and cold-dark-death in another group.  Of course people living in Arizona and the like are probably less naive :)

Joe
Thursday, June 10, 2004

"In NSW, Australia, it's a serious offence to leave children alone in a car, especially on a hot day. We've had children die from this."

It happens fairly frequently purely by oversights - there was a case in Montreal last summer where a young couple upset their routine slightly because of a pending vacation, and that day it was the father's turn to drive their infant daughter to daycare. Tragically with all of the thoughts in his mind, and the quiet of his daughter sleeping, he forgot about it and discovered his daughter dead leaving work. Like always there were multiple slip-ups (such that the mother didn't phone him and ask him how it went, or that the daycare didn't care inquiring about where she was, etc), but that didn't change the horrible end result. One presumes that no one noticed her alone in the car, though I pity anyone who did look at figured it was none of their business (sadly a lot of people think this way).

Of course many could question if it really is "frequently" - about 30 or so children die from being forgotten/trapped in cars in the US a year, which while relatively small just seems so preventable and tragic. I have no doubt that astronomically more dogs die in cars, and that multiples more children suffer brain or organ damage, but ultimately survive and thus keep from being a stastistic.

Troy King,

I'm not fond of forfiture laws (or the war on drugs for that matter), but if they exist then there doesn't seem to be a much better target.

Dennis Forbes
Thursday, June 10, 2004

>If tradesmen or action-types are nearby, they will probably smash the windows to let the children cool down.

We just finished doing a huge study on the physics of all of this. And it is very very scary. The poster who said people would generally call the police, and action types might break the windows is right. But the fact is if you see a child in a car, regardless of how hot it is outside, you should immediately smash the windows and get the child out.

Aussie Chick
Thursday, June 10, 2004

"I guess culturally/historically we've associated warmth-sun-life together, and cold-dark-death in another group.  Of course people living in Arizona and the like are probably less naive :)"

I am in Arizona, and unfortunately, we've had some idiots leave their kids in the car here.  One woman (now in jail) left her kid in the car in the summer, while she was working out at the gym!  Not kidding.  Where's "eye for an eye" when you need it.

Clay Whipkey
Thursday, June 10, 2004

Clay, to be honest, for your average soccer mom jail time and living knowing you've killed your own child is probably a worse punishment than a quick and painless death.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, June 10, 2004

Dennis, this was a news item today - check the second patent on the list:
http://www.geocities.com/cjc_licensing/isspat.html

Apparently they've been peddling it to auto manufacturers; they're not interested.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, June 10, 2004

Whenever I've been sitting somewhere with my stuff spread out, after I gather it up and start to walk away, I always do a look back to make sure I didn't leave something there.  A habit I got into after leaving things behind once or twice.

It astonishes me that parents don't work to ingrain a similar habit in themselves in regards to kids in the car.

Of course, that's easy for me to say because I'm not a parent yet...but I will be in a couple months, so we'll see how I do.

Kyralessa
Friday, June 11, 2004

A year ago some guy stole a car, found the kid in it, abandoned the car and the child died. He was charged with manslaughter.

The other week the same scenario happened, this time the guy noticed the child, drove it to a service station, dialed 000 (ie 911) and told them where to find the car...then he fled. It didn't take long for them to find the car, but the guy who stole it has been elevated to sort of heroish status...well at least 'not so bad' status.

Aussie Chick
Friday, June 11, 2004

-----" It's the same reason that so many people get skin cancer from tanning excessively and not using sunscreen...we just aren't as afraid of the sun as we should be."-------

The fact that the time gap between severe sunburn and the onset of skin cancer  is twenty to thirty years might have something to do with it.

The fact that in Nothern climes people shed the melanin that protected them from the sun because more people died of vitamin D related deficiency diseases than ever caught skin cancer might be another reason.

The fact that the only way you are going to quickly die of dehydration or sunstroke is when you are locked in a metal box with poor ventilation might be a third reason.

Stephen Jones
Friday, June 11, 2004

I heard recently that there have been 23 deaths this year related to children locked up in cars.

sd
Friday, June 11, 2004

"Apparently they've been peddling it to auto manufacturers; they're not interested."

This infuriates me...it should be required of auto manufacturers the same way that seat belts have been for a while and more recently that child seat anchor points now are.

I have a two year old, and I always make sure he's belted in and taken out as appropriate...but I can almost (note it's only almost) see how some parents might forget.  Those parents I get pissed at but feel sorry for.  The ones that really make me blow my top are the ones that knowingly leave their kid in the car "for just a minute" that turns out to be an hour.  It breaks my heart thinking about the poor kids, but I have no sympathy for the parents who knowingly put their kids in such danger.

anon
Friday, June 11, 2004

If you see what the patent is you can see why car manufacturers aren't interested though carjackers incorporated might pay for it as an advance on profits.

It doesn't check if anybody is in the car at all. It just waits until it gets hot and opens the sun-roof and windows.

A Porshce or Ferrari on a hot day would stay in place less time than a bottle of iced water.

Stephen Jones
Friday, June 11, 2004

I missed that bit...hrm...

There really should be a way to check for occupancy.

anon
Friday, June 11, 2004

yeah, it's called the driver.

mb
Friday, June 11, 2004

I agree with a previous poster, it is hard to imagine really how anyone could forget they had children in the car, and yet I can think of a few scenarios. ie a babysitter, or a parent doing a regular job, ie drop into the bank quickly on the way to the shopping, something that is so habitual that they forget there are new variables in the equation. I mean how many times have I locked my keys in the car? Or left my wallet somewhere, obviously not as important as a child, and yet to a childless person such as myself locking keys in the car and losing my wallet are about as big an inconvenience as I get.

As for parents who purposely leave children in the car just for five minutes....their is no excuse, not even parking in front of the newsagent while you run in to buy the paper....

Aussie Chick
Friday, June 11, 2004

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