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Help - suggestions for IDE to use...

Hello, I'm a Smalltalk developer wanting to branch out and was wondering what tools to use for a shareware app.  I want to develop a small app that could be used by most people so I'm thinking of using Visual studio 6 or Visual Studio.NET. 

Since I want the app to be available to a wide variety of users, I don't want the user to have to install the .NET runtime.  My question is whether I can use Visual Studio.NET to produce code that can be run without the .NET runtime(I'm guessing not).  Should I just stick with the old Visual Studio and use C++ and MFC?

Thanks in advance.

Ron Moddesette
Friday, June 04, 2004

" My question is whether I can use Visual Studio.NET to produce code that can be run without the .NET runtime(I'm guessing not).  Should I just stick with the old Visual Studio and use C++ and MFC?
"

1.  Visual Studio .net programs require the .net runtime.
Compressed (for download) it's 20MB or so).

2. C++ developed with visual studio does not require the runtime if you compile it for "standalone".

(I'm no C++ expert, but this is what I learned researching the same question)

3. Have you considered Delphi?
Much easier to use than C++ and compiles small standalone exe's.

Mr. Analogy
Friday, June 04, 2004

Thanks for the reply.  I've not considered Delphi since I don't have access to a Delphi IDE.  Is one available to free?

Thanks

Ron Moddesette
Friday, June 04, 2004

Ron,

There is a free license available for Delphi, but it does not give you commercial rights.

As a smalltalk developer I think you should take some time to look at Eiffel and Ruby.  These are the two main options that are pure OO.

EiffelStudio costs a lot money, but like eiffel it can be downloaded and use for free as long as you stay non-commercial.

http://www.eiffelstudio.net

One big advantage to Eiffel is that it is fully compiled.  Another is that it can also target the .Net clr.

Another eiffel option is SmartEiffel.  This is an open source version with a very powerful compiler.

http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html

Another language you should consider is Ruby.  This is a scripting lanuage but you can use exeRb to create independant executables.  Code such as "5.upto 10 { |n| puts n }" is very close to Smalltalk.

http://www.ruby-lang.org
http://exerb.sourceforge.jp/index.en.html

ArachnoRuby is an excellent Ruby IDE.

http://www.scriptolutions.com/ruby_cgi.php

Ged Byrne
Friday, June 04, 2004

That should be 'but like Delphi'

Ged Byrne
Friday, June 04, 2004

Ron, have you considered using Dolphin Smalltalk? You could leverage your Smalltalk knowledge _and_ be able to create a standalone app.

Giovanni Corriga
Friday, June 04, 2004

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'll use everyone's suggestions as a starting point for some research.  I see I may have been too narrow in my initial thinking and will look into the other options mentioned.

Ron.

Ron Moddesette
Friday, June 04, 2004

I'm curious as to what the aversion is to the .NET framework runtime installation...  You stated your requirement as having the app be available to a wide variety of users, but I don't see how the .NET framework limits you there, since the options you are considering (like MFC) already tie you to the Windows platform.  The framework is available at least from Win98 forward, isn't it?

There are other reasons for avoiding dependency on the framework -- like simply not wanting your users to have to download the 25MB installer, which would be problematic if you were targeting people on dialup.  But that's not really "availability" so much as convenience.

Also, I believe there is a product that will take a .NET executable and make it into a standalone package.  I can't remember the name at the moment though :(  But I doubt it's free...and it probably makes a very bloated exe.

Joe
Friday, June 04, 2004

I don't want to use .NET framework due to the large download required for dial up people.  I was thinking of doing a shareware app targeting children since I have young children myself.  That is the only reason I was trying to avoid the .NET framework.

However, all things considered, since I don't really expect to make any money, I might consider .NET since it is a nice development framework. 

Ron Moddesette
Saturday, June 05, 2004

Bill Rayer has just updated his Lingo language, why not give it a try?

http://www.lingolanguage.com/

Ged Byrne
Sunday, June 06, 2004

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