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Are you a less productive programmer since married

Are you a less productive programmer since you got married & have kidz ?

Does being a family man has been a show stopper of still being a star performer at work ?

(I'm trying to set-up a small ISV after work, while working on a part time MSc in Software Engineering, I'm getting married next month ...)

Ixion
Sunday, May 30, 2004

if there is anything in your working life more important to you than your wife-to-be then I suggest you dont marry her.

FullNameRequired
Sunday, May 30, 2004

I'm more reproductive than I used to be...

Seriously, I'm more focussed, having been married 19 years this coming June 22.  I go in, I get it done, I go home.

Used to be I'd go in, drink coffay, think about womyn, try not to think about womyn, plan the weekend, ...

Now I hardly think about women at all...  :)

hoser
Sunday, May 30, 2004

"Are you a less productive programmer since you got married & have kidz ?"

Definately.  Although, I'm a much more well-rounded person.  When single, I would work till all hours if need be and I'd work whenever I was most productive (which typically isn't 9-to-5).  Now I work 9-to-5.  Often the option to work till 11:00 without distraction isn't available.

Almost Anonymous
Sunday, May 30, 2004

I am being 37 (37) and have married a nice woman who is 18 (18). We are living in Tokyo and I have found myself being no less productive since we gotten married months ago. Things could be made more difficult when I make her pregnant and she births children ,maybe?  I do not no.

It probabbly matter as much how far you are needing to go to get to work.

Junichiro Kawaguchi
Sunday, May 30, 2004

I am married with one toddler. I feel pressure not to work late. Also, it is almost impossible for me to work from home.

Yoey
Sunday, May 30, 2004

I spend less time at the office, for sure.

I think I get more done. My life is more settled, I eat better, get more sleep. We have no children and will not, given our ages.

After saying that, I must add that I am not working for hard-charging companies that expect  80 hour weeks. Given my age, late 40s, I probably wouldn't even if I was single.

I remember clearly the moment when I decided, while I was still unmarried, that I would rather go home to my apartment and sit listening to the radio and reading mysteries than hang around the office. Could there be a connection that I got married a few years later.

anon married man
Sunday, May 30, 2004

"I am being 37 and have married a nice woman who is 18."

I have a new hero.

Philo

Philo
Sunday, May 30, 2004

Philo, finding a nice woman isn't that big of a deal.

;-)

Edward
Sunday, May 30, 2004

I think Philo was talking about finding a nice girl.

Chris
Sunday, May 30, 2004

It's like three herculean feats all in one:
- Finding an 18 year old woman that will date a 37 year old
- Marrying her
- Putting up with her afterwards.

[g,d,r]

Philo

Philo
Monday, May 31, 2004

Personally Id find the "putting up with her afterwards" step the hardest.

Increasingly I find the conversation of those under 25 almost excruciatingly boring to listen to.

<g> Im utterly bewildered by men who actually want to date these creatures, what do you talk about while at dinner?  in the evenings?

FullNameRequired
Monday, May 31, 2004

who wants to talk? ;-)

jb
Monday, May 31, 2004

Do you lot have a clue about what a bunch of nasty, outdated bigots you are?

This, more than anything, explains why companies are getting rid of their UK and US IT staff. Your opinion of yourselves is SO much higher than anyone else's.

anon
Monday, May 31, 2004

Marriage didn't affect my productivity much but having kids sure did. The 0-2 stage was OK, he goes to bed really early and takes multiple naps during the day, plenty of time to get things done. I have found that 2 and up hampers the productivty much more as naps have disappeared and now he wants much more play time. But you know, I don't really mind it that much :) As another poster mentioned, making sure your time at work is effective time (not surfing, fooling around, etc) is key to maintaining a "get things done" regimen.

Gerald
Monday, May 31, 2004

Most people should be more productive. In fact, most should move from being programmers to some safer job.

Li-fan Chen
Monday, May 31, 2004

--"Increasingly I find the conversation of those under 25 almost excruciatingly boring to listen to."----

It's called getting older.

When you are in your late teens of course you'd find the oonversation of those aged 20-25 just as excruciatingly boring.

Stephen Jones
Monday, May 31, 2004

"I have found that 2 and up hampers the productivty much more as naps have disappeared and now he wants much more play time"

Wait until Civics and Trig homework come along...

Philo

Philo
Monday, May 31, 2004

>Increasingly I find the conversation of those under 25 almost excruciatingly boring to listen to.

Well, in that case, I expect they find you equally boring. Don't be such a jaded fucking snob. I know lots of smart and interesting under-25s, if you can't get past cultural differences then that's your loss.

Matt
Monday, May 31, 2004

"Well, in that case, I expect they find you equally boring. "

I have very little doubt that is the case.  Really means we are all doing each other a favour by not communicating :)

" Don't be such a jaded fucking snob."

<g> the tendency towards self-righteous piety is definitely one of the less attractive traits in the young.

". I know lots of smart and interesting under-25s, if you can't get past cultural differences then that's your loss."

yeah, and I feel the pain every day. 

I have no doubt there are many, many smart and interesting under-25s out there. 
I just wouldn't want to date any of them :)

seriously, their preoccupation with themselves is dull, their tendency towards self-righteous proclamations is boring, their ostentatiously jaded facade is downright uncool and their slow, eviscerating wit would be more at home buried in a melting relic of the ice age.

I have no doubt there are many, many exceptions to this :)

but I _really dont care_

FullNameRequired
Monday, May 31, 2004

I think I am more productive now that I am married. The motivation to succeed is much stronger when someone besides yourself is at stake. All of the best engineers I know are married.

I am in my late twenties and the youngest programmer where I work. I get along fine there and have interesting discussions with developers almost twice my age. Their biggest gripe about me is the music I listen to and mine is anyone talking about lawn care, cars, or operating systems.

Log
Monday, May 31, 2004

Not less productive, although not so inclined to work year-round 70-hour weeks.  My wife isn't the sort that requires volumes of attention, and I certainly wouldn't have married anyone like that.  I've worked with folks who had to leave promptly or face a thunderstorm from the spouse.  Shame.

With kid #1 on the way, the situation is likely to change a bit, but not so much as most I've witnessed.  I'm not the sort to decide being Dad is all that matters and that work is just work.  I view my working life (although not always my jobs) the way a sculptor or painter does -- it defines me, and I live to create, and I will never sacrifice that spirit.  But I have plenty of slack time in the week, time spent reading JOS for instance, that I can give up.

Art
Monday, May 31, 2004

There are 2 threads in this forum: one is about how programmers have no people skills, the other is asking for opinions on being a married programmer.  Does not compute...

(Geez, what do we have to do to kill the "programmers don't have people skills" myth, already?)

Me, I'm never getting married, but my productivity would probably go up if I stopped reading joelonsoftware.com...

make up your minds!
Monday, May 31, 2004

Don't wind up unemployed with a kid at home.  It's nearly impossible to get anything done if you are in that situation.  You're either taking care of them or playing with them all the time.  Pleasant or not, it's not possible to do much that's constructive.  I have to disagree with the poster about the young kids being easier because of all the naps.  If what you are doing can be chopped into small enough time slices, maybe you can get something accomplished, but I sure couldn't.

Oh, wait, the OP had to do with marriage, not kids.  I've been married 11 years this past Satuday.  I can't remember that far back.

Aaron F Stanton
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

Regarding the under-25 crowd, I have to share a scene from the motivational video Ricky Gervais shot as David Brent for Microsoft:

David Brent had just done an impression of a comic figure from the 70's, which the 20-something he's giving a midyear review to didn't get at all.
Brent: "Come on," he complains, "don't you recognize him?"
Employee: "No, I'm sorry. I must've been before my time."
Brent: "Yeah, what is up with this company? Where are all the people over forty? It's like bloody Logan's Run around here."
Employee: "What's Logan's Run?"

[grin]

Philo

Philo
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

"*It* must've been before my time."

Philo
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

Marriage didn't dent my productivity much.

The OP didn't ask about kids, but they do come with the territory. The big question here is - will your wife be a working mom or a stay at home mom?  If you can afford it, it's much better all the way around if your wife can quit her job.

My wife works and I can tell you from experience that it can be a drain on productivity if your boss measures productivity by how late you stay every evening.

yet another anon
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

Sure, but if your boss views how late you stay as a suitable index of productivity, then you've got problems with your job, not with your marriage!

Adrian
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

For the first couple of years, I was less productive. Over time I found that I got more of a hard time at home than at work so I worked longer hours.

What is an 18 year old and where can I get one ?

:-)

faded'n'jaded
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

> If you can afford it, it's much better all the way around if your wife can quit her job. My wife works and I can tell you from experience that it can be a drain on productivity if your boss measures productivity by how late you stay every evening.

I'm finishing reading a book called _Passages: Predictable Crises of Adult Life_. It includes many little biographies/thumbnails, describing how people have different ambitions and different problems to resolve in different decades of ther life.

One of the predictable crises is for the wife, when her children have grown: what does she do next, if she has been a stay-at-home mom?

I'd recommend it: it may give you insight into why you're doing what you're doing now, what you'll go through later, and what you can do now to help prepare for that.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553271067/103-9137636-1783820?v=glance

Christopher Wells
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

Ehm... well writing off all under 25s as boring certainly sounds like a self-righteous proclamation to me.

Matt
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

To hell with how your boss measures productivity.  I couldn't care less about pleasing that sort.  I'm productive because it pleases *me*.  If it didn't please me, I'd slack off and slowly generate dung like the others, who make within 10 percentage points of the same salary regardless.

Art
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

" Things could be made more difficult when I make her pregnant and she births children ,maybe?"

Ganbatte on the making her pregnant part, Junichiro!  Give it your best effort!

Kodomo o sodatsu no wa, Tyotto muzukashiku naru ka mo shirimiasen kedo, motto omoshiroku mo narimasu, ne.

Furthermore, I agree with the prevailing sentiments that productivity per hour increases as marriage/children focus you on accomplishing more in less time.

Jim Rankin
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

"Ehm... well writing off all under 25s as boring certainly sounds like a self-righteous proclamation to me."

wow, your like the energiser battery aint ya, you just keep going on.

all I was saying originally is that I personally dont like dating younger women because their conversation is mostly as dull as dishwater to me.

Thats a matter of taste, not a matter of fact.

and its irrelevant anyway because Im already happily married :)

FullNameRequired
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

"A melting relic of the ice age?" Wtf?

You were trying a bit too hard there...

Brian
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

"You were trying a bit too hard there..."

LOL, I wondered if anyone would mention it.

ah well, it sounded great on the inside of my own head...

FullNameRequired
Tuesday, June 01, 2004

People under 25 are bores.  I dated some and it was horrible.

It was not so long ago that I was under 25 myself and I can't imagine how people put up with me back then.  I was such an ass.  It's a long road though and I'm still learning.

Maybe by the time I'm 40 I will have grown into the person I thought I was at 20.

Andrew
Wednesday, June 02, 2004

ATTENTION

ATTENTION

REPEAT AFTER ME

THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN MAXIMUM PROGRAMMING OUTPUT.

THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN MAXIMUM PROGRAMMING OUTPUT.

THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN MAXIMUM PROGRAMMING OUTPUT.

THAT IS ALL. PUT YOUR HEADS DOWN AND RESUME CODING.

I AM GOING HOME TO DINNER AND PLAY WITH MY KIDS. I WILL RETURN AT 8:45 AM TOMORROW MORNING.

anon for this
Friday, June 04, 2004

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