Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board




Annoying coworker habit...

Habit:

You're tasked with an assignment and come up with a solution.

Coworker counter-suggests a solution that's equally as good as your solution, but not better.  However, you're forced into saying yes to a series of queries put forth by said coworker ( ie, "Would this work?",  "Why couldn't this work", "Are there disadvantages here?", etc). that, in the eyes of the ignorant, might make you look someone who is less than on the top of his game.

Said ignorant person (read, in many cases a boss) does not know that by conceding this series of points, you are NOT conceding that said coworker's solution is better than the one YOU actually have to implement.

Anyway, had to get that off my chest.

Crimson
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Blaaauuuoooooggghhh!!!

Sorry, that was me puking. I had to get that off my chest first. Better now...

OK, so you need some friends, a family, and some real socialization so you can get stuff off your chest.

In the least, you need a therapist who will listen to you for a fee. If you don't want to pay for the therapist, then get yourself a domain name for a small fee, put up a weblog, and empty your insides there.

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

grunt, you keep complaining about other people. Philo, Crimson, etc. I think it's you who needs a blog. A blog very very far away from here.

RP
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Having a bad day, grunt? Why don't you tell us all about it :-).

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

We need more posters like grunt to keep the rabble in line.


Tuesday, April 20, 2004

> Having a bad day, grunt? Why don't you tell us all about
> it :-).

Thanks for asking, but not particularly.  :-)

There is usually some really good stuff on this forum, but lately, it's been getting really cluttered with noise. I can't help but spill my guts just like the other posters whoever they are. I don't pick on particular people.

It is just so annoying to watch people use this forum like it is an IRC channel, but who am I to judge anyone or anything. I'll just try to tune it out. It is clear nothing will change anyway.

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

If your solution is truly better, then you should have a non-yes answer to "Are there disadvantages here?"

Alyosha`
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Designing software is never trivial, and you should embrace any opportunity to validate your design before you begin programming. It sounds a bit like you and your coworker are competing on ego, while you both should really be focusing on what is best for the end product.

Big B
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Thanks for the concern, grunt.  You ARE my therapist while I'm at work.  The best part is you're free!  Ah well, you get what you pay for. :)

Crimson
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

-Alyosha`

"If your solution is truly better, then you should have a non-yes answer to "Are there disadvantages here?" "

There are advantages and disadvantages with anything, but in most of the cases I'm referring to, at the end of the day, either approach will take the same amount of time, will be just as maintainable, etc.  It's really a thing that you shouldn't be spending much time on, yet you get sucked into these things because someone else wants to puffs their feathers for the boss.

-BigB

"Designing software is never trivial, and you should embrace any opportunity to validate your design before you begin programming. It sounds a bit like you and your coworker are competing on ego, while you both should really be focusing on what is best for the end product."

Perhaps there is some truth to this, but my design should be validated and it *has* been validated before it's implemented or even brought before this other coworker, believe me.

But don't mistake the littany of inane questions meant to impress the boss as secondary validation of my design.  There is nothing validating about spending time asking repeated questions on the level of ("If we calll the database interface DBAccesor rather than DatabaseAccessor, could that work?").  YES, this kind of stuff DOES happen to me!  It's ridiculous!

Crimson
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Aw, it could be worse. We could have played Bibliomeme http://weblogs.asp.net/philoj/archive/2004/04/17/115354.aspx

Yes, a group is its own worst enemy http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

No problem Crimson!  Who told you I am free? But as you said, you get what you pay for! 

I am not a bad person, you know. Just another fellow human being disgruntled by the idiots surrounding him.

I'll start a forum of my own and we'll discuss all these people whom we can't stand like the people who just refuse to use their damn turn signal before they make a turn, or the invincible ones to whom the red light means nothing, or the ones who have no idea how to take turns at a 4-way stop sign, or the bosses who are so clueless that they are clueless about being clueless, or whatever else ticks you off.  :)

Speaking of people you don't like to work with, I am reading "You Need to Be a Little Crazy" by Barry Moltz. It is really good. It talks more about people who go into business together and have to work together (as opposed to being employed at the same place and have to work together because of it), but it is a good read nonetheless.

He tells you why you don't want to start your own business.

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Good idea grunt!

The ones that really annoy me are the ones that are planning to turn at the lights, so they _half_ move into the turn lane and then plow on their brakes, forcing the the people going straight. A close cousin is the fellow that refuses to turn into the turn lane until right before the light (usually coming close to causing accidents as other drivers move over and start passing them in the turning lane), again slowing traffic behind them. ARGHH!!!

You know what else bugs me? People who delay their exit from something if they know someone else is waiting for it. You know the person sitting at the gas pump/parking spot/whatever who suddenly feels the need to do their hair, fix the mascara, clean the back seat, etc, all to stick it to the person waiting for them. If there weren't laws, and if insurance was free, I'm smash their car out of the spot.

Thanks again grunt!

Dennis Forbes
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

As a sidenote, grunt, your complaints about this thread are indeed misplaced - This thread is entirely appropriate for software development/management, as it is a common issue/problem.

Dennis Forbes
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

> You know what else bugs me?

I have one more that kills me. How many times have you stopped at the red light right before the big white line where you are supposed to, and the people making a left turn to the lane next to you try to cut across in a straight line instead of making an arc like they are supposed to, but still give you the dirty looks as if you are in their lane? 

Sometimes I can't help but inch even closer to the white line *hoping* someone hits me just so I can have fun with their insurance company! 

I do the same when I am waiting to make a left turn across the lane of opposing traffic and some idiot _clearly_ tries to go when the red light is on (you can tell from your own red light and the fact that his car is accelerating like crazy), but there is me in the way, so he/she gets stranded in the middle of the road or has to make some James Bond move to avoid me. 

What a joy!  :)

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

> As a sidenote, grunt, your complaints about this thread
> are indeed misplaced - This thread is entirely appropriate
> for software development/management, as it is a
> common issue/problem.

Point taken.

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Crimson, don't be afraid to assert yourself in that situation.

He: "Well how about X? It does Y too."
You: "Yes, but let me stop you there.  Your solution is one that I've already considered and does not present any advantages over my own solution.  As I have more domain knowledge with my solution I believe that we should proceed with it instead.  Boss, what do you think?"

You've neatly nipped the discussion in the bud and placed the decision to further evaluate something that you have already evaluated (re: wasted effort) firmly in the hands of your boss - and at the same time you've showed that you evaluated other options and picked this one for a good reason.

Your explanation may differ somewhat, but you should end discussion on the alternate solution soundly and explain why (in as few words as possible).

Lou
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

I have bosses like that too. You design something, and then they flip out and do a redesign because they prefer another font, and a reworded question.

I was (seriously) under the assumption that this is how untrained (ie promote the accountant to management) type managers generally behaved?

Aussie Chick
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

99 times out of 100 coming up with a solution and comparing various solutions is trivial. (*) The hard part is identifying and prioritizing the problems you're trying to solve.

Let's say you need to handle issues a, b, c, d, e. You have a solution that addresses a, b, and d, and his solves a, c, and e. Focus on prioritizing the issues (your boss can help if you can't agree); which solution is better will be obvious.

* The answer is 42

genius
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

P.S. if the differences are really insignificant, as you say, then go with the one suggested by whomever will end up implementing it.

genius
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

grunt is right that there are a lot of morons posting lately. Is this business really full of people who can't explain themselves in meetings?


Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Every industry and every social group has it's share of morons, whether it's doctors, policemen, garbage men, service station attendants, lawn bowls clubs, tennis clubs, etc. This is because they're full of humans, and humans, as a whole, are morons.

Welcome to the club.

Jack of all
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Ps. I really hate ppl who sit in the fast lane when the slow lane is free. Sometimes I just want to ram them off the road, drag them from there cars kicking and screaming and giving them a nipple grip until they truly, deeply understand how large a pain in the ass and burden to society they really are... but that's just me.

Jack of all
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Jack, people like you should be in jail. I hope you get lots of speeding tickets and, when you crash, it is only yourself that you injure.


Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Thanks.

Ps. Just me (Sir to you), that Shirky article was top notch.

Jack of all
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Blank, the next time I see you bogarting the fast lane under some misguided notion that you're going the speed limit and thus it's your right I'm going to smash you off the f'kin road.

By the way - hog the left lane in Ontario while a faster driver approaches, even if you're going 150km/h, and you're breaking the law. MOVE THE FUCK OVER.

.
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Well, please be civil.

However, if you're not passing someone, please move to the right lane.  Even if the road is open.  Even if you're doing the speed limit.  Its just a courtesy and good habit that you move to the right lane unless you're passing.

Having said that, there is no room on the road for rage either.  Stick a sock in that.

hoser
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

> Blank, the next time I see you bogarting the fast lane under some misguided notion that you're going the speed limit and thus it's your right I'm going to smash you off the f'kin road.

I love it when I'm on undercover duty. The look on their faces when we put the flashing light up. The attempt at respect. The whiney attempt to get out of it.


Wednesday, April 21, 2004

Counter-query. "Why would that be better?" Learn to look condensending and distainful: "what possible advantage would that have?" And finally, go on the offensive: "Yes, it would be quicker in that case, however in whatever other case it would be slower, and into sermon about comprimise in software design.

Finally kick said co-worker in the beans and shit on the bosses desk.

Mr Jack
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

"I love it when I'm on undercover duty."

Uh...yeah. You're as much an undercover cop as you're not a raging pervert.


Wednesday, April 21, 2004

Book em, Dano.


Wednesday, April 21, 2004

I'm a shithead, and I know it clap my hands,

<clap><clap>

I'm a shithead and I know it clap my hands,

<clap><clap>

...


Wednesday, April 21, 2004

I've got this annoying co-worker ...


Wednesday, April 21, 2004

My co-worker munches on crunchy vegetables and fruits all day long and makes very loud chewing noises. Every day I just want to sharpen those celery stalks of his into a point and stab him with it.


Thursday, April 22, 2004

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home