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What an awesome day...

I met with my boss last Wednesday to review an InfoPath demo I'm working on. At that time I had the form laid out, basic Sharepoint install done, and the AD schema designed. He asked me to try to have the form saving by today.

So when I meet with him later today I'll have completed:
- Full Sharepoint layout and architecture (areas, sites, etc)
- Web services for saving and updating
- Saving functionality working
- SQL Reporting services installed, configured, linked into SharePoint, and two reports running against the database

All I have left to do is hook the form into AD and some offline code. :)

(I also did three client visits in between...)

Philo

Philo
Monday, April 19, 2004

Great, the work is done. Tomorrow morning your boss will fire you, congratulations! :)

Evgeny Gesin /Javadesk.com/
Monday, April 19, 2004

Sharing your jubilation eh?

Farid
Monday, April 19, 2004

Philo,
So is this forum your blog?  Just curious, because this post isn't asking for help or feedback, and it doesn't invoke a discussion on an interesting topic.  All it does is talk about something cool you did.  That seems like something for your blog page, not for a public forum.

Clay Whipkey
Monday, April 19, 2004

Hey Clay,

Philo is special. So stop yer hatin'!

:-P

Palooka Joe
Monday, April 19, 2004

Good job, Philo.  Ignore the grumpy trolls.

Reporting Services is a breeze isn't it?  The more I've used it, the more I've liked it, which isn't something I usually say about MS products.

Steve Barbour
Monday, April 19, 2004

Clay, my boss reads my blog. Does that answer your question? [grin] I probably will write up a more detailed post for my blog *after* I meet with him. ;-)

I consider many of the Joelites my friends, and I was feeling pretty happy over finishing off the milestone, so I came here to share.

I will add "no personal news" to my growing list of things not to post on JoS. (Damn, I was pretty sure since this was about software development I was safe.)

In fact, could you do us all a favor and post a list of what's okay and what's not okay to post here? It seems like you have a pretty good handle on it.

Philo

Philo
Monday, April 19, 2004

Hey, Clay sucks the big one. Keep posting these pearls, we need them. At least someone on this board is on schedule.

RP
Monday, April 19, 2004

No dude, that's my bad.  I wasn't intending to troll, I guess I just haven't caught on to what unspoken rules of netiquette are bendable.  I'm probably also just jealous because I have no idea what you were talking about and probably couldn't hold a candle to your programming skills.  (definitely NOT jealous of you working for MS, regardless of how much you hype their good lovin'.  Bottom line is you still work for someone else's profit and take what scraps they throws you in their benevolence.)

Clay Whipkey
Monday, April 19, 2004

how are you hooking sql reporting services up to sharepoint? directly into the SQL database? or does it have a 'wacky sharepoint interface' option? the first seems like a no-no to me, the second is a PITA (though I know how to do it now) but if SQL reporting services did the work i'll definately investiagate it.

mb
Monday, April 19, 2004

So far I've done it two ways:
1) Links to reports
2) Web viewers - stuff a web page web part on a page, set the url to the url of the report (Make sure you get the URL of the report itself, not the report manager) - I thought this was going to look like crap, but it was so cool I left it and I'm going to put more in. :)

Philo

Philo
Monday, April 19, 2004

Philo,
    I would be interested to hear more about your work with Reporting Services.  I started playing with RS about a month ago and I'm loving it.  The only complaint I have is that the security settings get annoying when you have many folders off the root.  I'm getting ready to move RS to a live server and transfer our current Crystal Reports setup.

zigzag
Monday, April 19, 2004

Philo,

Maybe you should change your JoS name to

"MS can't afford advertising so here I am" :-)

Prakash S
Monday, April 19, 2004

"I just haven't caught on to what unspoken rules of netiquette are bendable"

All of them. The trick is knowing when.  ;)

"Bottom line is you still work for someone else's profit and take what scraps they throws you in their benevolence"

Ah - someone who lets the other person's profit affect their happiness. ;-)
I look at a job as a self-contained equation. Microsoft is paying me to learn as much as I can about technology I enjoy, build proofs of concept without getting bogged down in maintenance, and fly around the country and help people solve their problems. It's the million dollar question - if I won the lottery, this is almost exactly how I'd love to spend my time; except I'm getting paid to do it.

I don't care that most of the profit goes to other people - I'm happy with what I do and comfortable with my income. :-)

Philo

Philo
Monday, April 19, 2004

Maybe you should change your JoS name to

"MS can't afford advertising so here I am" :-)

Nah. How about something more appropriate?

Why am I here? Have you *seen* our Office ads?
Monday, April 19, 2004

A PUBLIC FORUM FOR OPEN DISCUSSION OF TOPICS RAISED ON JOEL ON SOFTWARE.

if it seems like I'm yelling, you're right
Monday, April 19, 2004

Philo,

Congrats on:
1. Being able to find someone with valuable work to be done.
2. Being able to sink your teeth into it and stay focussed.
3. Knowing how to push through to completion.

WTG.

hoser
Monday, April 19, 2004

Today I showed up for work. It's been the 5th day in a row!!!!

where's my kudos?
Monday, April 19, 2004

Delete! Delete!


Monday, April 19, 2004

"All it does is talk about something cool you did. "

I _like_ hearing about cool things other programmers are doing.  <g> its nearly as much fun as doing cool things myself.

FullNameRequired
Monday, April 19, 2004

While 5 days in a row is impressive, this will be the 3rd week I've worked w/o taking a drink.

regular poster obviously anonymous for this one
Monday, April 19, 2004

"A PUBLIC FORUM FOR OPEN DISCUSSION OF TOPICS RAISED ON JOEL ON SOFTWARE."

Oh, okay. Then since "Software Marketing" is in the current article on the front page, I'll just say

... I couldn't have done it if SharePoint, SQL Reporting Services, .Net, and InfoPath weren't so easy to use.

There. Happy? [grin]

Philo

Philo
Monday, April 19, 2004

hmmm... sounds like you've described how you're displaying the result of a report in a sharepoint portal.

you have probably written an infopath form which saves its data to a SQL database, then displays reports in sharepoint... 

i'm not interested in that so much as getting data out of a sharepoint form library into a reporting service. as i mention above, i've written a few custom reporting solutions for sharepoint already and would love to have more options.

definately write this up on your blog, it'll be interesting to see how you turn this hype into reality.

mb
Monday, April 19, 2004

"... I couldn't have done it if SharePoint, SQL Reporting Services, .Net, and InfoPath weren't so easy to use. "

...and you just happen to be a sales rep for those products.

Seriously your credibility on the usability or worthiness of those products is incredibly low, and each time you pimp them your overall credibility takes a hit. Yeah you represent them because you believe in them, blah blah blah, but nonethless.

At least post under an alter ego or something. As it is you sound like another clown posting a "Boy, has anyone heard of http://www.mylamewebsite.com? It looks neat and I wanted to know what you think?"

.
Monday, April 19, 2004

Oh, and my credibility won't take a hit if I post under a pseudonym and someone nails me?

I am COMPLETELY open about who I am and what I do. If you choose not to believe me, you have all the information necessary to do so.

The *reason* I'm always pimping this stuff is that my job is to do cool things with these particular products. So I live inside them, trying to figure out how to make them solve real-life problems. i.e. I'm hyper-focused, and my posts reflect this. SharePoint is my hammer, all your problems are nails. [grin] (BTW, also recognize some of my "Sharepoint!" posts are tongue-in-cheek)

The current demo I'm writing does address a real-world problem that the client is anxious to solve. Once I get to the point where I can discuss it more openly I'll definitely be picking it apart in my blog.

Philo

Philo
Monday, April 19, 2004

"""At least post under an alter ego or something"""

Who do you think posts all those posts that lather praise on Philo?


Monday, April 19, 2004

Just a human relationship comment:

The most *boring* type of conversational exchange is the one-directional "I am so great" monologue.

Philo, you are very helpful and civil here, but some of us who are working at "invisible" jobs or working to build up businesses find the self adulation irritating beyond belief.

Some of us have no choice but to be "demeaned" by chance of the particular job or career track that we are stuck with or that we gradually grew into.

FYI... not hatin'. It's just a Wesley Crusher type of moment.

Not Philo, and bored off my @$$
Monday, April 19, 2004

I just went to see "Lost in Translation" today.

Alex.ro
Monday, April 19, 2004

> The current demo I'm writing does address a real-world
> problem that the client is anxious to solve

It is funny you should talk about solving "real-world" problems when millions die of hunger. Other millions still fight over land, oil, money, power, etc.. and you are happy that your customer has a "real-world" problem to solve with whatever it is you are doing.

Hopefully whateve problem it is they are trying to solve will not end up costing jobs -or worse yet- lives down the road.

If you ask me, all this technology changed nothing! How are we different than our ancestors thousands of years ago? We simply got more efficient in hurting each other, and this efficiency made us more selfish and greedier.

The stuff that really makes a difference in our daily lives still sucks beyond belief. We drive cars that are highly inefficient -for example- intoxicating the very air we breathe. Medicare stinks (have you been to a hospital recently?).

Well you go on and be happy about your stuff that really doesn't make much of a change in the big scheme of things.
Speaking of which, I should go back to what I do that makes no difference either.

grunt
Monday, April 19, 2004

Bullshit.

When you add value to a product, you are productive.  You got paid.  But more than that, you added more than the value to someone's "widget" that they needed to accomplish their little part of the puzzle.

This is what we do and its valuable work.  If it were not, no one would pay you for it.  And if the big capital engine didn't run, then there would be no schools, no medicine (also part of the big cap engine), no docs, not nurses, no voluteers at the food bank, no nothing.

Having seen recently what others (namely my fucked up relatives from Turkey are like) hold of value, its just one day of scamming the system after another.  What's in it for me?  How do I manipulate things so I get something for nothing?

You keep writing your cog of code.  Its what you do,  Nothing wrong with it.  You're entitled to enjoy your victories. Have a beer.

hoser
Monday, April 19, 2004

Yeah, I'm with Hoser.  We're all connected -- everything in the economic machine is important even if you're not out there feeding hungry people directly or walking on the moon.

Thanks for the story, Philo.  It's good to see successes when they come, and I find it encouraging. 

Hang in there, we're all in this together.  ;-)

Michael Kale
Monday, April 19, 2004

> We're all connected -- everything in the economic
> machine is important even if you're not out there feeding
> hungry people directly or walking on the moon.

We sure are.. The problem is not that we are not connected. We are connected, and we are doing things collectively.  However, if we don't lift our heads up and see where we are going, we are going to collectively go down the drain.

Just because we are part of the system, and we are doing our own little part, does not mean we are accomplishing anything good. Philo writing some SQL thingie for some company who creates the tracking system for that cruise missle which kills people in Iraq who decide to strike back and knock down buildings to which the government reacts with who knows what strategy is the kind of chain reaction you might not see coming because your head is dug under  ground.

There are plenty of pointless things being pursued with no useful goal other than "to make money". Shortsightedness and greed is the end of all.

grunt
Monday, April 19, 2004


What a load of absolute horseshit.

Yeah, let's just sit around all day around the campfire singong songs and "connect" with each other while being paralyzed by the fear of actually doing something because it might not result in a utopian society.

Not Me
Monday, April 19, 2004


NotMe,


Who told you to sit around and do nothing? Just be aware of your actions. If someone offers you a billion dollars to solve the problem of "oh yeah, we need to nuke a few million people", don't go building that thing for the damn money. Or if someone asks you to design the biggest ass car because it looks cool and makes the driver feel superior, but destroys the environment, then don't do it.

Can't you tell the difference between "something that works for everyone" and "something that works for the elite/the CEO/the rich"?

grunt
Monday, April 19, 2004

Grunt, any peice of technology can be used for good or for evil.  Just because something *can* be used for evil does not make it inherently evil, as long as it has non-evil uses too.

Write to your congress-critter.  Get involved.  Change the world.  But don't sit around and bitch about how bad things are when we're trying to take a break, have a beer, and congratulate the guy on a fullfilling day at work.  There's bad shit going on in this world today.  There has been for ages, and there will likely be for ages to come.  That doesn't mean we should ignore it.  Or not care about it.  I am deeply concerned about a great many things in this world, and try in my own small way to have a positive impact on this world.  But you're not going to change the world overnight, and if you spend your life stressed out and depressed about that, well, try to do it on your own time.  We're all just trying to live, allright?

Michael Kale
Monday, April 19, 2004

Oh, and I'm not trying to say you should do something you feel is morally wrong just to make some money.  Of course we should have principles and stand by them.  But if you feel that Sharepoint is morally wrong, well, I for one disagree with you...

Michael Kale
Monday, April 19, 2004

It's all about that Karma points.

See Philo adds lots of positive karma points to this board, so he is able to get away with things that other people can't.

And what's more, we all enjoy it when he does (that's the karma points talking).

And in the words of the great man himself.
"No, we are talking about cars.  Please pay attention"

Aussie Chick
Monday, April 19, 2004

There was a letter to the editor in a local paper that epitomized a mindset that infuriates me, and which appears to be materializing here: A few days earlier there was a story about an animal rescue group that had rescued and was caring for a couple of dozen cats, and it detailed the selfless efforts of those involved -- A heartwarming little human interest story.

Out comes Curmudgeon A. Hole, bitter pen in hand, to chastize the people involved, and the newspaper. To paraphrase: "We live in a world where people are starving in Africa, wars are being fought, and these people are wasting their time feeding cats?"

To catalog all the ways in which this person is an idiot would take days, and I knew immediately that this waste of flesh had probably done nothing in their lives to make the world a better place, however minimal, but instead felt morally righteous by belitting those around them who did because there's always a greater cause. "Feeding the starving in Africa? Pah! The polar caps are melting and they're all going to drown anyways!"

.
Monday, April 19, 2004


"Or if someone asks you to design the biggest ass car because it looks cool and makes the driver feel superior, but destroys the environment, then don't do it."

...but what if the auto maker will then build a factory in Brazil and employ the natives, thereby giving them a job so that they can stop poaching and cutting down rare timbers in the Amazon that they sell in order to just survive?

What if the IT department of the automaker moves to India, thereby contributing to economy of that country and fueling ways to stop pollution in that overly polluted country?

Tongue in cheek aside, life is a bit more complicated than the way you are painting it.

And I agree with the previous poster...Chill..The guy was having a good day. There's enough bad to go around; why you gotta rain on his parade?

Not Me
Monday, April 19, 2004

> Grunt, any peice of technology can be used for good or
> for evil.  Just because something *can* be used for evil
> does not make it inherently evil, as long as it has non-
> evil uses too.

Agreed. However, SUVs still kill the environment (more so than other types of cars) whether you use it to go grocery shopping or load it with explosives and leave it in front of a building to make a statement.

> Write to your congress-critter.  Get involved.  Change the
> world.  But don't sit around and bitch about how bad
> things are when we're trying to take a break, have a
> beer, and congratulate the guy on a fullfilling day at work.

I do participate. Every small step adds up.

> Oh, and I'm not trying to say you should do something
> you feel is morally wrong just to make some money.  Of
> course we should have principles and stand by them. 

Absolutely.

> But if you feel that Sharepoint is morally wrong, well, I for
> one disagree with you...

I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I don't know what Sharepoint is, and I don't care. I never made a statement regarding Sharepoint.

Philo started a thread because he had something to say, and I simply pointed out a different angle by bringing in the bigger picture. His success is 100 fold success for Microsoft and I am not sure what that means in the grand scheme of things if anything...

grunt
Monday, April 19, 2004

Wait a minute.

Some sales engineer makes a f*cking demo, and you people are all praising him?

Either you people are lamer than I though, or Philo really does post under multiple aliases.


Monday, April 19, 2004

> why you gotta rain on his parade?

He felt like having a parade, and I felt like raining.. So what? :) 

Seriously, I didn't offend him or his work, nor did I say anything wrong (with respect to my point of view). I simply presented a different (gloomier) angle. I apologize if anyone got hurt.

I am done raining now. It is so nice out. I'm going to go enjoy it!

By the way, I love cats! All animals for that matter. Most of the time, they are helpless, and I'll do anything to save them, feed them! :)  No offense to Africans.  Instead of trying to feed them, we should teach them how to fish, or plant a few magical Ford factories so they can work and make a living.

> The polar caps are melting and they're all going to drown
> anyways!

Whoever said that is an idiot who never put ice in his drink. Did you notice that as the ice melts, the water level does not change?  ;)


Good day gentlemen and gentlewomen.

grunt
Monday, April 19, 2004

Errr, grunt, we're talking about the Polar caps. That's the bits on top, like you have a cap on top of your head.

When you have an ice cube one ninth of which is floating above the level of drink in your glass, you will find that the lliquid level will rise as it melts..

Of course you will have drunk so much of the drink anyway that you wouldn't notice but that is another thing. Also you would do better not to put any water in the glass, and drink the bourbon before the ice melts and spoils the taste.

The parts that will be taken submerged by global warming include most of the Nile Delta and large chunks of BanglaDesh; Holland has enough money to save itself. Africa is unlikely to be more affected than the States.

Stephen Jones
Monday, April 19, 2004

I'm sorry, but Grunt is right.

There are real problems in the world and no one wants to hear you bragging about some demo you made. No, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take pride in your work or that what you do doesn't matter, but people come here for help or for advice or to share interesting ideas, so try to keep that in mind next time you come here and feel the urge to blog (talking about your day, talking about some movie you saw, talking about your favorite TV show, etc.).

Justin++
Monday, April 19, 2004

>> intoxicating the very air we breathe

If only, dude, if only.

dude
Monday, April 19, 2004

Wow, Philo. You sure know how to push those troll buttons! Tomorrow you should try to push the one that makes them all fall asleep and take a nap!

Anon-y-mous Cow-ard
Monday, April 19, 2004

Why does Philo's opening post sound similar to:

http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/95q1/jpreviews.html

?

Bored Bystander
Monday, April 19, 2004

I hate boards that become "communities" where entrenched posters feel the need to defend each other and turn the board into their own personal log of daily trivia and bullshit. 

If you want to talk about your personal victories, talk to your wife or friends, don't turn the board into your personal diary. Can we please leave this board to the discussion of issues of software development?

delete this thread
Monday, April 19, 2004

"Can we please leave this board to the discussion of issues of software development"

At the very least. Better would be to leave it to its original purpose: Discuss the topics that Joel brings up.


Monday, April 19, 2004

Today I came in about fifteen minutes late, ah, I used the side door--that way Lumbergh wouldn't see me, heh--after that I sorta spaced out for an hour.

I just stared at my desk, but it looked like I was working. I did that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

I did absolutely nothing today, and it was everything I thought it could be.

Peter G.
Monday, April 19, 2004

I compliment the poster's veiled sales pitch. If he gets more products out the door, its worth it. For all I know, Philo may have written automation programs to post on several boards...always with a disclaimer of course.

Tom Vu
Monday, April 19, 2004

I was doing some menial tasks, stopped for a brief moment, leant back in my chair and then continued with those tasks.

proud of myself
Monday, April 19, 2004

Actually, Philo's been posting about Sharepoint for a while before he got hired on (says the poster previously known as SPSGuy.)  He's helped people, and congradulated them on their achievements, but when he post with a bit of "I had a good day" then the trolls come out to feed. 

Hmmm, This isn't a help desk (that I've seen,) this is a place for people to discuss software and it's uses.  So someone posts something POSITIVE about some software and gets jumped on.  If he had posted something negative about the same product, I have a feeling he wouldn't have gotten nearly the flack he has.

Unfocused Focused
Monday, April 19, 2004

Hey, there's an idea. Let's turn JOS into a Positive forum where we can all express our dreams and our commitments to meet our sales quotas.

Why, heck, I'm already 20 percent over quota for the month. I'm a cert for the Super Winner Club this month, and you know what that means - the trip to Rome. Hot dog.

Now, let me tell you about my wife and my $250,000 car and how well my children are doing at school.

Awesome indeed
Monday, April 19, 2004

No problem with that - I'll be glad for you to do just that... Right after you spend more than a year in the forums helping and encouraging others.  No to mention documenting the good and bad that go on in development projects and the bureaucracy behind them.
There’s a post above about how bad it is when all the people who have posted here for a while get together and defend their posts.  That completely ignores the concept that the reason people post here is not because it’s a message board, but because it’s a community – specifically one that Joel has tried to encourage to be an interesting, informative, and useful place.  In that spirit, those who add the most value get the most flexibility in the directions of their posts.  Philo contributes a lot of good posts to the board, and therefore gets a lot of freedom in his posts.
And since I can hear the trolls gnawing on this post about this thread and Philo’s Apprentice posts – “what has he done today?”  To that I reply – congratulations, you have just met the level at which you rail at managers for being short sighted and not seeing the long view of your personal project x.
Philo’s posts may not always be directly on topic for churning out architectures and goals, but they generally are on target for supporting those people who DO churn out the code and the architectures.  And if you think you can take one without the other, you’re part of the problems we all face in doing our jobs.

Unfocused Focused
Monday, April 19, 2004

BFD. I spent most of the day researching used Harleys (not to mention most of tonight). Still got paid the same, and still managed to be more productive than 1/2 the people I work with. You sound young, like 20 or 30. You'll get over it eventually.


Monday, April 19, 2004

Oh yeah. I've been posting way before Philo. You guys want updates on my bowel movements or anything?


Monday, April 19, 2004

Yes, Oh-Most-Honorable-Nameless-One. Please share with us each and every detail of your most recent bowel movements that we may learn from your experience and become better ourselves at having bowel movements.

Uncle Pookie
Monday, April 19, 2004


So Philo posts that he is using a particular piece of technology and that it's working well and some moron compares this to posting an update of taking a shit?

This thread highlights the single most aggravated factor about this industry: The unmitigated assholes who comprise it. It's rare that you could find another industry so heavily populated with self-rightheous windbags who criticize, moan and complain about literally anything under the sun.

I'm not some Philo groupie; just an objective person who doesn't see anything wrong with someone posting a success story about technology.

Had the post been about his wife, his kids or something else then sure, the resultant comments would have been appopriate.

Some of you must be very bitter and angry people. I pity you.

Oh
Monday, April 19, 2004

"Some of you must be very bitter and angry people. I pity you."

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Re-read Philo's masturbatory self congratulations - no one ever likes to read that sort of crap...anywhere. Add in the fact that he's a sales rep for the products in question and it gets even more ridiculous.

Personally I had no problem with it because Philo has "paid his dues" on this board, but I certainly won't berate the kids for calling him on it.

.
Monday, April 19, 2004


A few quotes from "Oh":

> ... and some moron compares this to posting an update
> of taking a shit?

> ... The unmitigated assholes who comprise it.

You don't come across as "peaceful" either dude!  :)

cool
Monday, April 19, 2004

> Personally I had no problem with it because Philo
> has "paid his dues" on this board, but I ...

Can I "pay for my dues" too so I can say anything I want, gloat all I want and still be protected by the shield of other posters?  How much?  Name your price!  Or is this some Microsoft sponsored benefit for its employees?  Maybe it is the karma points... I knew I shouldn't have used up all of mine saving the world. Damn it!

wants_to_pay_his_dues
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Philo wrote in part:

"So when I meet with him later today I'll have completed:
- Full Sharepoint layout and architecture (areas, sites, etc)
- Web services for saving and updating
- Saving functionality working
- SQL Reporting services installed, configured, linked into SharePoint, and two reports running against the database

All I have left to do is hook the form into AD and some offline code. :)

(I also did three client visits in between...)"

Dude! Give us some details on how you went about accomplishing the above! i.e., design process, etc. so long as it doesn't get you in trouble with The-Notorious-Bill-G, of course.

Likewise, give us the 411 on dealing with difficult clients, managing expectations, etc.

Ya gave us the sizzle, but where's the steak, Philo? :-)

It's12AM,MyFatAssOughtaBeInBed
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

>Personally I had no problem with it because Philo has "paid his dues" on this board, but I certainly won't berate the kids for calling him on it.

Well said, He has paid his dues, except I am more inclined to call the kids on it. Leave off Philo.

Mind you, if Philo is anything like me he will be reading these posts and laughing his head right off. Then he will call his wife over and the two of them will be having a good chuckle.

Aussie Chick
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

> Then he will call his wife over and the two of them will be having a good chuckle.

Yeah I can imagine how it went down:

"Hey, honey, come here, take a look at this!"

*Aussie Chick, his wife, comes over*

"Wow! They're condemning you for turning the forum into your own personal bog/advertisement. Here, let me help you."

*Aussie Chick types long post defending her husband*

Justin++
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

>I just went to see "Lost in Translation" today.

How did you like it Alex? I bought the CD the day after the Oscars, and couldn't watch more than half of it.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

I was doing two chicks at the same time, when out of the corner of my eye I caught Philo's post. It got me all fired up and in the same breath I was jumping in my GAP slacks, slipping on the Rockports and sliding a Starsky over the hood of my red Merc.
I had this great idea for converting the whole of our TPS reporting service to a WS-* orchestrated Infopath/SQL Server architecture, but when I got to the parking lott some looser had apparently set fire to the building.
That cooled down my spirits like no end, so numbed by the bad fortune I reluctantly picked up the twins that where hitching a ride of Bellvue ...

Philo man, high five!

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

"...but what if the auto maker will then build a factory in Brazil and employ the natives, thereby giving them a job so that they can stop poaching and cutting down rare timbers in the Amazon that they sell in order to just survive?"

<pedantic>
You prolly shouldn't use the word "natives" in this context. The natives, i.e., the brazilian indians that were living their quiet little lives before we (portuguese) showed up and messed it all, are not the ones cutting the trees.
</pedantic>

Paulo Caetano
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Unfocused, you twerp, like blank I've also posted here before you even heard about JOS.

> Philo’s posts ... are on target for those people who DO churn out the code and the architectures.  And if you think you can take one without the other, you’re part of the problems we all face in doing our jobs.

Philo is what we call an enterprise developer, as opposed to a software engineer. There's nothing wrong with this but, Mr Project Manager, don't go thinking Philo is the height of technical excellence. (Nothing personal, Philo, just communicating with Unfocused.)

See, the problem here is that Philo's got himself a little cheer squad of all those dorks who think a name employer is big time.

Awesome indeed
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

No, Philo has got a bunch of people who like what he has to say, and do not like the way posters on this board seem to come out of the woodwork to critisise minor deviations from what would be considered on-topic.

Well, actually I can only speak for myself. I am not a dork, and I like Philo because he posts interesting things, as opposed to him being linked to Microsoft.

Again, I speak for myself only. You seem to have summed up the rest of the anti-troll league though, haven't you?

Aussie Chick
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

No offense to Philo, as he seems like an OK guy. I don't mind him posting about his day (I don't CARE, but I also don't mind). But I'm curious what these "interesting things" you speak about him posting are? He seems to have attracted a groupie base by bitching about a previous employer.


Tuesday, April 20, 2004

> Now, let me tell you about my wife and my $250,000 car and how well my children are doing at school

Your wife already told me about it while we were in bed. She also explained why you _need_ that 250k car.

J/k
Tuesday, April 20, 2004


Wow.. What a thread this is.  It's been a lot more interesting ever since someone said something against the trend.  :)

> No, Philo has got a bunch of people who like what he has
> to say, and do not like the way posters on this board
> seem to come out of the woodwork to critisise minor
> deviations from what would be considered on-topic.

Ummm.. This is what personal blogs are for. I don't really find what he has to say to be all that interesting to be frank. He can do all of that in his own personal space which apparently he does already and even his boss reads it. Lovely. Just keep it that way.

> Well, actually I can only speak for myself.  I am not a
> dork, and I like Philo because he posts interesting things,
> as opposed to him being linked to Microsoft.

Unfortunately, if you have to say "I am not a dork", then you are one. Once again, if you find what he has to say interesting, go to *his* webpage where you can read all about what he wants to say until your eyes come out of your head. Post to *his* forum, chuckle all you want, be happy.

> Again, I speak for myself only. You seem to have summed
> up the rest of the anti-troll league though, haven't you?

When you type something, it is already implied that you are speaking for yourself unless you say it is otherwise. You don't have to say "I speak for myself" in front of every sentence!  Unless of course Philo is there and he is making you say it so that it doesn't appear as if he is making you say it.  OR you are Philo.

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Speaking for myself I find Philo, or at least his contributions to this board, to be quite OK. I haven't noticed any "groupies" or "cult following" surrounding his posting, but hey, I might have just missed those nuances of JoS culture.
I really liked the Camel stuff, was not too keen on "the Apprentice" saga (which seems to be endemic in certain net neighbourhoods) and hey, his "advocacy" is tempered and modest enough so as not to conjure up illusions of a raving, froth at the mouth, lunatic fringe (insert bible substitute of choice here) thumper.
On the whole there isn't much on JoS that I seem to find objectionable, which is extremely favorable for such a large community.
Probably the only thing that disturbed me recently was a slight recurring presence of quite explicit sexual agression, apparently awoken in some by the appearence and behavior of a character in the above mentioned television series.

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

Dude - if you don't want to read what Philo has to say, then don't read his posts.  Generally, he's been very helpful and articulate on this board, so if he's having a good day, I'm happy to hear about it.

Man ... some people are crabapples.

Matt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

It's Joel's forum, Joel has already expressed the means and desire to maintain focus by deleting posts *he* considers inappropriate for *his* forum.

Given that, anything left is obviously considered to be "on topic" by the forum owner.

Which leaves one to wonder where other people get off trying to get the forum run the way *they* want to.

Boy, and they say *I* have an ego...

Philo

Philo
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

"anything left is obviously considered to be "on topic" by the forum owner"

I'a sure there is a race condition in there somewhere.

Just me (Sir to you)
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

To stray, yet once more, I've understood "awe" and its variants to have a negative connotation. But then I checked up the word and its meaning is just as confusing a complex emotion as this thread has come out to be.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=awe

Philo, congratulations for a good day at the office.

KayJay
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

John Wayne, playing a centurion at the Crucifiction:

- "Truly this man was the son of god."

Director:

- "No, John, put more awe into it."

John:

- "Aw, truly this man was the son of god."

awesomely aweful
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

"Which leaves one to wonder where other people get off trying to get the forum run the way *they* want to. "

Of course the folks at Fogcreek also have the ability to delete individual posts, such as the many criticizing your post, yet they have not. By your analysis, they are encouraging such posts.

.
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

> It's Joel's forum, Joel has already expressed the means
> and desire to maintain focus by deleting posts *he*
> considers inappropriate for *his* forum.

You don't see Joel coming over here and gloating and bloating about what a wonderful day he had? Or anything personal for that matter... After all, this is *his* space. He can do as he pleases.

Just because your stupid threads aren't getting deleted, doesn't mean anything. It just means the moderators are potentially sleeping at the helm or too busy to bother with you.

Besides you have your own forum and blog, don't you? Why don't you just stick with those? Your buddies from here (and your boss) will surely follow you over there if they care to hear what you have to say.

I am *already* avoiding your blog and anything you have to say. Now you are making me waste more energy to try to avoid you on someone else's forum too?

That's just _too_ much!

grunt
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

"Can't we all just get along?!"

Rodney
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

grunt need's the sargent's boot up his ass

RP
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

>> This thread highlights the single most aggravated factor about this industry: The unmitigated assholes who comprise it. It's rare that you could find another industry so heavily populated with self-rightheous windbags who criticize, moan and complain about literally anything under the sun.


Law.  Politics.  Medicine.  Sales.

We start to look pretty reasonable in that group.

dude
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

grunt, RP,

I think you guys should kiss and make up.

Pikachu
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

The water level doesn't change if all the ice is floating. Considering that the south polar ice cap is not floating, the idea that melting it won't change the sea level doesn't hold water.

pdq
Tuesday, April 20, 2004

You're all just a bunch of Nazi's who love nothing more than Salad Cream.

Jack of all
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

<quote author="Jack of All">
You're all just a bunch of Nazi's who love nothing more than Salad Cream.
</quote>

This is JoS. The above does not apply.

Anyways, you're all just a bunch of Nazi's who love nothing more than Salad Cream and keep at this and all your jobs will be **Outsourced**.

KayJay
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

> The water level doesn't change if all the ice is floating.
> Considering that the south polar ice cap is not floating,
> the idea that melting it won't change the sea level
> doesn't hold water.

In fact, it is the part of the iceberg that is above the water that is the problem. The part of the iceberg that is submerged already displaced water. Whether the submerged part is touching the ocean floor or not, does not matter.

When the part of the iceberg sticking out of the water melts, it will contribute to the increase in sea levels.

nameless
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

Of course then you get into the science about whether the frozen water takes up less room as a solid, then as a liquid....

Aussie Chick
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

Only if you care about exactly how much water is displaced.

Jack of all
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

I can't believe I'm prolonging this...

An iceberg floats at the level where the weight of the water displaced by the underwater part is exactly the same as the total weight of the berg, including the
part above water.

Since it's all water (give or take some impurities), the volume of the displaced water is therefore exactly the same as the total water in the berg if it melts.

In a drink, the densities are also pretty close to pure water, so the same thing happens, ie the water level stays the same.

Then there's the business off boiling water freezing faster than cold...

Ward
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

Evaporation plus dissoultion of impurities

Only if the rate of evaporation is greater than the rate of freezing in any localised area, will boiling water freeze faster than cold water, as the volume of water will be that much less. The domestic fridge's freezer is on such system. In an industrial freezer, such as with abbotoirs, it makes no difference, since the rate of freezing is greater by many orders of magnitude.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=boiling+water+freezes+faster&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

KayJay
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

Philo has a great day at the office and it causes a riot here on the forum and a thread that grows to 95 posts.

Ever considered running for President, Philo?

RP
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

What's the weather like where you are? (Let's push this one to 100. We haven't had many 100 threads lately.)

.
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

> Ever considered running for President, Philo?

When? Where? I'll show up with my rotten eggs!!
Hehe

,.,
Wednesday, April 21, 2004

I hereby nominate the next post as #100

Dennis Forbes
Thursday, April 22, 2004

>I can't believe I'm prolonging this...

That is exactly what I thought when I pressed send about three posts before yours....*grin*

Aussie Chick
Thursday, April 22, 2004

Who farted?

It wasn't me
Friday, April 23, 2004

Who smelt it, dealt it!

it was you
Saturday, April 24, 2004

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