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Poll: What car do you drive?

Two Questions -- in relation to the thread on global warming:

A) What car do you drive? (i.e. a gas guzzler or a non-gas guzzler)
B) If you believe global warming is on the rise, do you think human activity is overwhelmingly responsible for it?

(If you don't have a car feel free share how you get around town -- by foot, metro, bike, by crawling on all fours, hitchhiking, you don't get around town...whatever)

George Illes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) Honda Accord
B) Global warming is on the rise, due primarily to human activity

George Illes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Shiny new Toyota Prius petrol-electric hybrid complete with battery-only silent stalker mode. Mu hahaha.

Ian Sanders
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1. A shiny ford Mondeo which averages 18.8 mpg in the city trips I do....
2. Yes. Half my country is going down the sink in about 30-40 years.

Mr Jack
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1997 Nissan Maxima.
There is not sufficient evidence to say we are on a warming trend.
There is not sufficient evidence to say what is responsible if there is a warming trend.
There is not sufficient evidence to support the catastrophic scenarios imagined as a result of a possible warming trend.
The idea that we had better do what the climate hysterics say "just in case" is stupid because I can easily come up with noghtmare scenarios which require us to take some other hugely expensive action.

name withheld out of cowardice
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Global warming was on the rise but now my new car has saved the world. Hurrah.

Ian Sanders
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A. 2003 Mazda Protege (averages 25MPG+)
B. Humanity is doomed!

Anonymous
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Prius does 54.3 mpg in the city (I know, it told me).

Ian Sanders
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) Volvo turbo 4-banger
2) I don't know if global warming is on the rise (from what I understand the methods for detecting global climate change do not show a causal relationship between human activity and climate change) but I do know that looking at geologic core samples (on the arctic if I recall correctly) there has been a significant rise in CO2 levels in the last couple thousand years or so.  Whether or not this will lead to global warming is debatable – there is insufficient data to indicate a causal relationship… although intuitively I would think we’re certainly not *helping*.

MR
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) Nissan Primera 2.2 diesel SVE (2002)

2) Yes we have screwed the planet.

Fuel Guzzler
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) '00 Porsche Boxster, '03 Mitsibishi Evo, '02 MV Agusta F4S
B) No idea.

JWA
Thursday, March 25, 2004

The 20th Porsche 911 Carrera 4S that rolled out of the factory. It will arrive on the Canadian shore late next year when the company I work for IPO/acquire Microsoft.

j/k

Li-fan Chen
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Beater 1993 Civic.  Does fine for me.

Global Warming?  Who knows.  I distrust both sides as they have both used pseudo-scientific studies to back their views.  I believe that we are in a warming trend going back a couple of hundred years. 

Is this caused by the human interaction with the environment?  Most certainly, but I think our impact on the environment comes much more from deforesting/urbanizing the world than from the exhaust of our vehicles. 

Have you ever wondered what the impact our obsession with heating/cooling our houses has on the environment?  Yet you don't hear people espousing better insulation, passive heating/cooling as a solution to global warming.  Why is that?  I would assume that all of us have to heat/cool in some way.  Where I live, a theoretical 10% reduction in heating for the winter would save a lot of natural gas comsumption.  Don't even get me started on electricity consumption in the summer...

O Canader
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Human activity has not affected the climate the way that cigarettes 'don't' cause cancer, the moon landings were 'fakes' and Belsen was actually a candy factory. 

Pah.

Woodentongue
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A. 2000 Audi A6 2.7T
B. Everything is in cycles.

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Oh and: In theory, 27 on the highway, and about 23 around town. In practice, I have a heavy foot, because the car is too fast not to enjoy it.

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A Ford Excursion 7.2 L Turbo Diesel.  VROOM VROOM!

hoser
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Statement on global warming from the American Geophysical Union (this is a non-political, scientific organization):

http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/climate_change_position.html

"Scientific evidence strongly indicates that natural influences cannot explain the rapid increase in global near-surface temperatures observed during the second half of the 20th century."

"A particular concern is that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide may be rising faster than at any time in Earth's history, except possibly following rare events like impacts from large extraterrestrial objects."

"Atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations have increased since the mid-1700s through fossil fuel burning and changes in land use, with more than 80% of this increase occurring since 1900."

George Illes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

> A) What car do you drive? (i.e. a gas guzzler or a non-gas guzzler)

A rented car, occasionally.

> B) If you believe global warming is on the rise, do you think human activity is overwhelmingly responsible for it?

My understanding is that there's no doubt at all that the globe is warming (for example that the polar ice is melting), and that human activity is contributing to that, but that the following topics are still controversial:

- whether it's worth worrying about (what the effects of warming will be)
- the extent to which it's caused by human activity
- whether it's worth attempting to do anything about it, and if so what, and whether to do it unilaterally

> If you don't have a car feel free share how you get around town

I haven't owned a car in 20 years. Any city I've lived in (Toronto, Rome, London) has had adequate public transport (bus, train, underground); ditto any first-world city that I've visited, except the U.S.A.

I typically buy a house or rent an appartment near where I work, to avoid commuting. I've also commuted by bicycle, and/or work from home. For weekly grocery shopping, I use any combination of:

- a taxi once per week
- shop online and get home delivery
- own my own shopping cart to wheel groceries home

Currently almost any car guzzles gas (or electricity which isn't a whole lot better). I may choose to own a car when I'm older and feebler (by which time I hope that automotive technology and energy infrastructure available for my use will be more environmentally-friendly).

Christopher Wells
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Christopher, are you a cyclist?

hoser
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Saw an Audi A4 3.0 convertible on the street yesterday.  What an awsome piece of metal that was.  Must be an awesome ride.

hoser
Thursday, March 25, 2004

a) Acura RSX-S (33mpg highway / 26mpg city)
b) Who knows.

Elephant
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Montana M2K metallic pea family truckster

Gruntled Employee
Thursday, March 25, 2004

I'd love an A4 convertible, if they were available in manual transmissions and all-wheel drive in the US. Sadly, it was automatic front-wheel only, last I checked.

The TT is quite a bit peppier, but being built on the A3 frame, is quite a bit smaller, and has the (in my opinion) inferior style of all wheel drive.

Both are good drives.

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) Ford Fiesta/Opel Corsa
B) Definitely

Paulo Caetano
Thursday, March 25, 2004

'98 Ford F-150.  16 mpg on the highway.

What's global warming?

Not this time, either
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) 2003 Mini Cooper
B) 28-35 MPG

Sassy
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) 2000 Chevy Prizm. Currently averaging around 30 mpg, but on one long trip a couple of years ago, I actually got 40 mpg.

B) Uh... I dunno. Like most things, the actual truth probably lies somewhere between the doomsayers and the naysayers.

Martha
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) Saab 9-3 Viggen.  Decent fuel economy and good performance 

B) I don't beleive global warming is because of human activity.  I don't see enough evidence to prove that fact.   

Bill Rushmore
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) Walk to work; though not for ecological reasons.
B)  Obviously, though as another poster has pointed out gas guzzling cars are only a small part of the equation, and the guys in Florida who turn on the air-conditioning so high that you can wear a suit and tie in the office comfortably are much more responsible (a previious post shows loads of them subscribe to this forum!)

Stephen Jones
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Toyota Yaris 4D4.  56 MPG (US)

Just me (Sir to you)
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Subaru Legacy....  Makes good pratical sense in the mountains.

I was just thinking about global warming as measure the temps in the back of our rack at 90 degress F.  Seems like we are warming things up to me.  Our mail server is basically an electric heater that can send some mail too. 

christopher baus (www.baus.net)
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Factory-made RiCe RoCkEt:

2000 Subaru 2.5 RS

--
ee

eclectic_echidna
Thursday, March 25, 2004

> If you believe global warming is on the rise, do you think human activity is overwhelmingly responsible for it?

We humans "like to think" that we are capabale of making such global climate change. Maybe because we also think falsely that we can fix it.

The reality is that a few key volcano eruptions have put so much CO2 into the air, it make the human contribution look like a speed bump. Look up Mt. Penatubo.

I don't know why we insist on perpetuating this myth that we can have that drastic of an effect on the environment.

We humans are pretty dang helpless.

--
ee

eclectic_echidna
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) 1999 Pont Grand Am
2) I like the warmth better than the cold...thats why I moved to NC leaving cold snowy and depressing buffalo behind

apw
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) 2001 Mazda Miata - no idea what its fuel efficiency is. And although I don't drive much, I drive to have fun. So efficiency probably isn't high.

2) I'm pretty certain that our actions have contributed (whether strongly or weakly) to the change in climate. There are a lot of things we could do to minimise our impact; but I don't think we will until it's too late.

Jeff Watkins
Thursday, March 25, 2004

2003 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport (5 spd)

Until I see the oceans rise by a considerable amount, I'm not worried about gloabl warming.  We can just do what they did in Futurama :-)

Either way, I'm not driving a gas-guzzling Unicron-sized SUV.

Myron A. Semack
Thursday, March 25, 2004

"Get the scientists working on the tube-technology!"
-- Tenacious D

MR
Thursday, March 25, 2004

'99 Subaru Legacy GT 2.5

And the moment I can afford it, my dream home will be totally self sufficient running on Air+Solar power.

sedwo
Thursday, March 25, 2004

2000 VW Jetta TDI (Turbo Direct/Diesel Injection 1.9L 90hp 4cyl)

US SYSTEM:
- approx 50+ MPG on highway
- approx 42+ MPG in city

METRIC:
- i get 4.7 Litres per 100km on highway drives
- about 5.5 Litres per 100km in city stop-n-go

Annualized Average diesel price in canada is almost 10 cents less per litre.

So i use up to 45% less fuel per year compared to gas, but diesel emissions are dirty compared to gas.. so maybe it averages out to the same amount of pollution; but i still save money.

Heston Holtmann
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee (yes, it goes off-road on a very regular basis). Between 15L and 16L per 100 km (about 15 MPG)

2) Silly question to ask here; few people are in a position to rationally evaluate the evidence that is available.  I have an advanced degree in a relevant science to this particular topic and to me and even with that background, it's hard to evaluate the evidence, because the way it is presented by both sides is heavily skewed. Worse, the evironmentalists tend to wrap it in a left-leaning politcal agenda, which does nothing to aid a rational evaluation of the facts.

That said, my view is that yes, we should be paying attention this issue, and we could also be looking at how we can reduce our environmental impact in general. The level of economic commitment we make to these factors should be directly proportional to the known effectiveness of the action being taken. In other words, pouring billions into unproven preventive measures is a bad idea when we can better spend those funds on initiative that can produce a measurable reduction in environmental impact. Kyoto is comes under this category.

It is also very important that we remove the political agendas that have become entwined with environmental issues. This does nobody any good whatsoever. We also need the measures that we do take be done on a truly global scale. Cutting back emissions in the US, while trillions of tons of emmisions continue to be produced in Mexico does not provide any real benefit.

Burninator
Thursday, March 25, 2004

eclectic echidna says:

"The reality is that a few key volcano eruptions have put so much CO2 into the air, it make the human contribution look like a speed bump. Look up Mt. Penatubo.

"I don't know why we insist on perpetuating this myth that we can have that drastic of an effect on the environment."

Hmmm. According to the USGS (another non-partisan, scientific body):

"Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons). Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!"

Please provide the scientific evidence to support your claim that "a few key volcano eruptions have put so much CO2 into the air, it make the human contribution look like a speed bump."

George Illes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

The USGS link:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

George Illes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

B) Global warming IS on the rise.. simply because its a cyclic phenominon(sp?)...
  and Human existance and all our actions combined contributes to significantly less then 50% of reasons why the current global warming phase is occuring

Heston Holtmann
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) 95 Toyota Tercel 2D ~40MPG
    00 Mitsu Galant V6  ~22MPG
I don't really track MPG anymore since we are both at home and 95% of our trips are within 1-3 miles.  I fill up the Tercel about once every 2 months.  Since we live in suburbia it's impossible to get around without cars otherwise we would drive even less.

B) Yes climate changes and humas are responsible for some fo the changes but that's not really such a bad thing.  Climate has always changed and nature adapts.  With 6bln people I say humans are adapting better than ever so nothing much to worry.  More worried about ozone hole and things like that than that directly cause people harm than El Nino.

tekumse
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1991 Miata
Around 30 mpg. I have a 2 mile commute so, who knows.

(Yes I should walk, but I have to pick up my daughter from school and it's too far for her to walk)

b) It's not clear how humans are affecting climate, but we certainly are.

As my dad used to say - "The cure for global warming is nuclear winter"

pdq
Thursday, March 25, 2004

New shape hyundai coupe. But only because I haven't talked the other half into letting me have the Ferrari 308 I've got my eye on.

Only a 2l cos when I bought it I was commuting a lot. Now I telework, I wish I'd got a 2.7

The other half doesn't drive; he tele-works as well. Therefore we are a nice environmentally friendly family. I must average about 50 miles a week...

It actually has an "instantaneous MPG" dial in it. What the hell use is that?

It also has an instantaneous torque metre. Which is even less use.

Apart from that, they're stormingly good cars and terrific fun to drive for something that's sane to use on public roads. Makes me grin everytime I drive it.

Katie Lucas
Thursday, March 25, 2004

None. I walk or take a cab or bus.

CodeCleaner
Thursday, March 25, 2004

I drive a Land Rover Discovery.  It uses a shocking amount of gas.  With current prices, it's over 40 bucks per fillup.  Gets about 9 miles per gallon or so.  As soon as I'm able, I'm going to sell it and buy something very small and very economical. 

I went a little overboard when we had our first baby, and thought I needed about 10 tons of steel to surround her.  Now I know better, about 1,000,000 gallons of gas later....

Global warming?  I'm sure my Land Rover is eating up the ozone layer like a PacMan.

Jim
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Walk mainly.  If it's under an hour of walking distance I'll probably walk otherwise I might take a pedal power.  If neither are really adequate I have a Suzuki Burgman 650 Motorcycle/Scooter/whateverYouWantToCallIt.  It's pretty freugal on the fuel.  I used to take transit a lot but the system here is pretty poxy (Vancouver.)  It's ok for every now and then but you can't rely on it.  Also it can be rather a pain to get to some places with it.  Your own vehicle helps in the convenience in those cases.

Global Warming?  Can't say but I wouldn't put it rule out blaming our actions for it.  But then we'll probably get hit by an asteroid when we solve it anyway.

Zekaric
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) '94 Ford Explorer (always save your money for laptops and peripherals)

2) Global Warming is a plot by the ancient Illuminati (now Swiss Bankers) to distract everyone while they steal back all the gold horded during the Crusades.  It's also partially caused by the inefficient room heaters at Area51. 

Joe Hendricks
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A: I must be the only biker here.  1995 Kawasaki Vulcan 500.  MPG: about 50.

B: We're contributing to global warming, but I think we don't have enough data to know how much.  And certainly not enough to know what the longterm consequences will be.  I very much doubt we will wreck the planet's ecosystem through global warming.

Frankly, I am far more concerned about the poisons we are putting into the air, ground and water (and, subsequently, into our bodies ) than I am about global warming.  And add to that all of the chemicals we are ingesting as a result of modern food production.  I'd rather deal with a warmer climate than cancer.

Should be working
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A very well taken care of 1992 Honda Accord.  When reasonably well taken care of, a Honda will run forever. I expect this one to last me quite a while.

JT
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Well said Burninator.

Nick
Thursday, March 25, 2004

(a) 89 toyota corolla.

(b) smoking through the ozone like a bush fire.
and eating through the greenery that converts the carbon dioxide at the other end...we're like a snake eating its own tail.
species are dying off at a faster rate than ever before (except for during the usual major events in history)
The beaches in britain are disappearing under the ocean, there is acid rain in europe and the states and the ocean streams are cooling down, heating up and changing direction.
huge quantities of fish are dying around the globe, algae bloom is becoming a normal event in the ocean, the big fish are all dying off and the small ones are being eaten.

whether we caused it or not is almost a moot point, the world is undergoing climate change.

Luckily I suspect we will survive....cold and lonely, living off nutrients grown in a tank inside our shelters...the only living things in a dead planet.

my partner calls me a pessimist :)

FullNameRequired
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) A Buick LeSabre 1990. I'm so tall that I have very few choices when it comes to cars. 22 MPG. Next car will be a Toyota Echo if I fit in.

2) About global warming, I don't know enough to comment on it. By instinct, I'd say humans are responsible for a part of it. Temperature was -15(C) Tuesday.

Anonymouche
Thursday, March 25, 2004

1) A well-maintained 98 Dodge Neon (that recently passed 200,000km. It's a good beater), and a 2003 Honda Odyssey. Somehow I seem to end up filling up each of them from close to empty weekly (the Odyssey has 240HP, and while it's laughable to talk about power with a minivan...it is a lot of gas-sucking fun). Call me an earth hater.  On the flip side if I replaced the middle-level Neon with a new, more efficient car, what would be environmental impace of all that was involved with making a new car?

2) Being a Canadian, I can't help but seeing an upside to global warming... Seriously, though, it seems obvious that the massive influence humans have had had on the carefully balanced environment causes change. It is also true that the Earth is a self-balancing system, so while the Earth will survive, we'll pay for our short sightedness given that we depend upon the status quo.

Dennis Forbes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Moved to NYC so I could get rid of my car.

(And also to be closer to Joel.  :-)

My rides these days: train, bus, bike ( http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk/ ) or (about once every two months) rental car.

And the problem with "we'll worry about climate change once we're convinced it's real by ocean levels rising, etc." is that by then, it will be vastly more difficult to do anything about it (if it's even possible).  A stitch in time saves nine, and all that...

- former car owner in Queens
Thursday, March 25, 2004

intrepid that gets 25/18 highway / city. I only drive my 40 mile commute (one way) during the week on avg, 1-1.5 weeks/month b/c otherwise I'm driving to/from the airport during on Mon and Fri.

30 years ago, newspapers were running stories running of global cooling. I'm not too worried. If they can't predict the weather a week from now, is it really reasonable to think they can predict the weather 50 years from now?

tim
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A) I don't have a car, because through cunning, and living in the inner city suburbs; I can walk everywhere I need to go.  I've never needed a car;  so I've never learnt to drive;  so if I bought a car,  I'd need someone to move it into a garage or something for me.

B) Yep.

Bleh
Thursday, March 25, 2004

"30 years ago, newspapers were running stories of global cooling. "

Indeed. I remember being a young kid 20 years ago*, and along with my concerns about running out of oil, nuclear war, killer bees/ants/tarantulas, and running out of fresh water, there was talk about the onset of an ice age. That era was just trying to defend itself building gas guzzlers!

* - I have to laugh at any media nonsense about how frightening of a world it is for kids nowadays -- how "different" it is, explaining anti-social prick kids. I grew up during a relatively "good" time, yet I remember the threat of nuclear war being EXTREMELY real (I'm still scarred by the made-for-TV movie "The Day After").

Dennis Forbes
Thursday, March 25, 2004

Dennis Forbes:

Quite right.  We were also soon to be the victim of over-population with an inability to produce enough food for ourselves and, if I were to believe the nearly omniscient character "Deitrich" from the old "Barney Miller" show, in for a global economic collapse would leave Gold as the only thing of value.

There is a market for pessimism.

name withheld out of cowardice
Thursday, March 25, 2004

a torque meter would tell you the optimum time to shift in a drag race. When the torque goes down it's time to shift.

pdq
Thursday, March 25, 2004

A: '93 Saturn SC2, with 139,000 miles - still going strong.

B:  Global change is happening as it has for about
5,500,000,000 years before humans showed up.  Whether
current changes are due primarily to humans doing this
or that, I don't know.  Whether there's much that can
be done about it if humans are responsible (beyond
ongoing improvements in technology that reduce
pollution, etc), I frankly doubt it - democracies won't
smash their economies on theory - no country of any
size in Europe is actually doing anything about Kyoto,
other than whine about Bush and American SUV's - and
developing countries would rather go to war than accept
pathetic standards of living dictated by Western
environmentalists.

x
Thursday, March 25, 2004

>A) What car do you drive? (i.e. a gas guzzler or a non-gas guzzler)

I operate two vehicles.  One is a gas-guzzling SUV.  The other is a sedan that gets pretty good mileage.

>B) If you believe global warming is on the rise, do you think human activity is overwhelmingly responsible for it?

I don't care.

Norrick
Thursday, March 25, 2004

a) A knackered 10 year old Nissan micra that gets me to the station for my wonderful commute by train plus a recent Hyundi Accent I share with my wife (for longer runs and when we've got the whole family along).  She mostly uses a new Dihatsu something or other (Matiz I think) as a runabout.  And no we don't have thing for Far Eastern cars they're just what we've got at the moment... the two before were a Vauxhall (aka GM) and a Renault

b)  Not entirely...  The trouble is climate is generally pretty stable over human lifetimes but at larger scales is bloody unstable. 

So we find ourselves on the equivilent of a frozen lake on the first really warm day of spring...and some silly bastards are jumping up and down.  Stopping them will only delay the inevitable...but I rather like delaying the inevitable if it's all the same to you.

a cynic writes...
Thursday, March 25, 2004

This is a stupid topic having NOTHING to do with software so it should be DELETED immediately! I don't even know why I bothered to respond to the original post!

Elephant
Thursday, March 25, 2004

For all the typing people did, does anyone actually read or care about anything in this thread except the first and maybe last post?! (I ask rhetorically...)

Ron
Thursday, March 25, 2004

> Yet you don't hear people espousing better insulation, passive heating/cooling as a solution to global warming.

Which province do you live in?

> Christopher, are you a cyclist?

I'm more of a unilateralist.

When I cycled it was a 40-minute each-way commute; it helped to keep me healthy during nearly a decade of long work hours (and, with meals, was my only reliable pleasure at that period of my life).

One curiosity I noticed, on a day when they hadn't cleared the streets of snow and vehicles were getting stuck: if you ever get stuck in snow, it's a whole lot easier to get off and push a bicycle than it is to get of a car and push it.

Now I'm working from home, and have a gym available nearby: so no incentive any more to bicycle regularly.

> There are a lot of things we could do to minimise our impact; but I don't think we will until it's too late.

Mandela saw the end of apartheid within his lifetime; perhaps anyone can live with hope.

> but i still save money

So do I in fact: several thousand dollars per year. I can spend it on better housing, for example.

> We also need the measures that we do take be done on a truly global scale. Cutting back emissions in the US, while trillions of tons of emmisions continue to be produced in Mexico does not provide any real benefit.

After you. No, after you. No, ...

I think it's futile to wait for the U.S.A. (as a country) to participate in this or any similar international convention (for example, http://www.unicef.org/crc/faq.htm#009 ).

> species are dying off at a faster rate than ever before

Take a test-tube full of food and put a bacterium in it. The bacteria double every minute. In 60 minutes, the tube is full of bacteria and the nutrients are exhausted.

At 59 minutes, the tube is half full.

At 55 minutes, the tube is only 3% full. A bacterium says "hey, guys, we're going to run out of resources in 5 minutes!" They reply, "Nonsence: 97% of the resources are still virgin, and we've been here for 55 minutes already!"

At 58 minutes, they realise that they do have a problem. They get their scientists together and heroicly quadruple their world's resources by creating 3 new test-tubes. The deadline is now 62 minutes instead of 60.

> Luckily I suspect we will survive....cold and lonely, living off nutrients grown in a tank inside our shelters...the only living things in a dead planet.

That's exceedingly unlikely: in order to live we need what other animals need ... water, sunlight, soil, and air. I don't see how we could survive an environment that has killed everything else.

> Being a Canadian, I can't help but seeing an upside to global warming.

Fewer polar bears, eh?

> I remember being a young kid 20 years ago

Me too (30 years ago). My thought at the time was that the American President has ONLY one job, as far as I was concerned: to not press The Button. Credit where credit is due, every president in my lifetime has successfully done that. Let other people do everything else, that's what I say.

> Whether there's much that can be done about it if humans are responsible (beyond ongoing improvements in technology that reduce pollution, etc), I frankly doubt it - democracies won't smash their economies on theory - no country of any size in Europe is actually doing anything about Kyoto, other than whine about Bush and American SUV's - and developing countries would rather go to war than accept pathetic standards of living dictated by Western environmentalists.

Maybe there's something wrong with economic theory: that an improvement in the science of economics would be worthwhile.

Ask for an economic model and you'll get a huge graph with lots of arrows, and labels like resources, profit, taxes, consumers, labour, and so on. You can tweak the model, add a tax, change a trade tarrif, invest in something, to encourage this or discourage that. "Nice model. Where does the ozone layer fit into all that?" "The ozone layer? Oh: that's an 'externality'." An 'externality'? Most all of the natural world is an externality to the economic model: it's as if the economic model were invented by Martians.

Economics has some bizarre ideas about "value" as well.

Christopher Wells
Thursday, March 25, 2004

"When I cycled it was a 40-minute each-way commute; it helped to keep me healthy during nearly a decade of long work hours (and, with meals, was my only reliable pleasure at that period of my life)."

Your only pleasures in life were food and commuting for an entire DECADE? 

That's incredibly depressing.

lumberjack
Thursday, March 25, 2004

>> Yet you don't hear people espousing better insulation, passive heating/cooling as a solution to global warming.

>Which province do you live in?

Ontario, currently Mississauga but I grew up in Dryden and then moved to the snow belt in Southern Ontario, in a small town just off Lake Huron/Georgian Bay.

My house has mainly south facing windows so even in the middle of winter, if the sun comes out the furnace stays off.  Close the curtains as the sun goes down and it stays reasonable for a couple of hours.  Of course I'm really glad for the furnace a few hours after that.  The cookie cutter suburbs around me have either minimal south facing windows or are so close together that they are in their neighbours shadow.  I'm not sure why R-2000 (super insulation values, small amount of leaks for non-Canadians) isn't mandatory in Ontario yet...we keep belly aching about the cost of electricity and gas.

O Canader
Friday, March 26, 2004

1. You assume I drive a car.

2. Yes it is and yes we are.

Home, James!
Friday, March 26, 2004

Not a single BMW! I can't be the only one...

John C
Friday, March 26, 2004

89 Passat, but it's my father's one, I don't have a car :(

 
Friday, March 26, 2004

You're not, John C.

BMW 323i. Also 1972 MG Midget until last year when I blew the engine.

b) yes, although I don't think the majority of it is caused by car usage.

Justin
Friday, March 26, 2004

> democracies won't smash their economies on theory

They cut back on ozone destroying chemical use with a subsequent reversing of the hole's growth.


Friday, March 26, 2004

a) 1997 Ford Escort

b) dunno, I don't have enough scientific knowledge to evaluate the evidence

Fernanda Stickpot
Friday, March 26, 2004

"They cut back on ozone destroying chemical use with a subsequent reversing of the hole's growth. "

Sez who?

The Contrarian
Friday, March 26, 2004

2004 BMW 745Li  30 miles on it so far.
I'll be dead in 60 years so I could care less about global warming.

Yo
Friday, March 26, 2004

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3569531.stm

The bit I was thinking about is about half way down, I mis-remembered. Sorry. I always was an optimist :)


Friday, March 26, 2004

am on the waiting list for the new Rolls Royce :)

Tapiwa
Friday, March 26, 2004

>"I'll be dead in 60 years so I could care less about global warming."

Minor nit -- it's "couldn't care less".  That, along with "mute" instead of "moot" drives me bonkers.

like i care
Friday, March 26, 2004

A) Bugatti Royale.
B) Probably.

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Friday, March 26, 2004

a.  Sebring convertible ~ 22 mpg
b.  Maybe, but my keen sense of irony imaginges this scenario:  we work diligently to get global warming under control, only to find that the relative warm period we're in between ice ages (they average about 10,000 years and we're around 12,000 years into one) ends, and we wish we hadn't done ANYTHING about global warming.

GML
Friday, March 26, 2004

My kid's car is a 1990 BMW 525i.  I love driving it.

hoser
Friday, March 26, 2004

2003 Mustang Cobra

10 MPGs and loving it

CaptainGroove
Friday, March 26, 2004

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