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The Apprentice (spoilers)

[heh - this one kicks the last one off the bottom]

Again, something of a dud week. I'm surprised more wasn't made of Omarosa's decision not to contact the charity - I guess she lucked out, because if any of those people had asked what the charity did, both teams would've been screwed.

The absolute classic was Tammy's "We were thinking of getting a celebrity and Carson Daly" to Carson Daly - she's definitely gonna get gone soon.

The final decision was a tough call. From a "end up with a leader" perspective, Trump made the right call. But if we're talking about winnowing for a real company, I would've canned Omarosa simply because I think an actively bad manager can cause far more damage than a limp non-manager.

I really thought Omarosa was a goner when Trump quizzed Jessie and Heidi - in the long term, a manager who alienates their entire staff is nothing but a liability. ("She has no class" - LOL!)

Irony of the week - the reason Jessie got canned was for being too passive; the advice she gave Kristi that got her fired the week before.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, February 12, 2004

I got the feeling Trump wished he could fire Omarosa & Jessie.  Place your bets nows.

Alaska Sam
Thursday, February 12, 2004

What is "The Apprentice" ?

Bleh
Thursday, February 12, 2004

That was fast tonight Philo...  It was just over and I clicked over here and your post was already here. :)

I think that Omarosa is gone the next time Trump has a chance to dump her.  He really doesn't like her style (nor should he).

Apparently he think that not standing up for yourself is worse than being abusive. :)

Ray
Thursday, February 12, 2004

I am glad Jessie got fired. It suited her for her last week's backstabbing!

Anon
Thursday, February 12, 2004

You know, after seeing tonight's episode I'm not so sure it was a backstabbing by Jessie last week.    This week she seemed so vapid that I'm starting to think she was sincere last week.  Thats her personality - avoid confrontation at all costs.  Even if it means getting fired.

MT
Thursday, February 12, 2004

I never thought it was backstabbing last week - it was sincere advice.

And before last week, how did the women have any way of knowing what the boardroom was like? ;)

Philo

Philo
Thursday, February 12, 2004

Last week's backstabbing was not about her advice to Kristi. It's about Kristi confiding in her and then Jessie blaming Kristi in boardroom for the Project's failure.

Anon
Thursday, February 12, 2004

Bleh -

http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Apprentice/about/index.html

NoName
Thursday, February 12, 2004

I find it incomprehesible that intelligent people watch any of the contrived idiotic "reality" shows. Sheesh...

Get a life
Thursday, February 12, 2004

They also repeat the episodes on CNBC, so maybe you can catch one or two that you missed.

NoName
Thursday, February 12, 2004

Get a life - have you watched the Apprentice?

I might point out that a majority of people would say "I can't believe people waste time on stupid online bulletin boards"

They're not all the same. ;-)

Philo

Philo
Thursday, February 12, 2004

When I watch reality shows, I want to see hot 20 year olds getting drunk or having sex. Or pranks being pulled on celebrities.  Or crackhouses being invaded by heavily armed swat teams.

I definately don't want to see businesspeople from new jersey who would have a hard time getting into MBA night school at Baruch scrounge for a C-level management job at trump realty. *yawn*

I suppose, your mileage may vary... but it makes me wonder about some of the regulars on this forum.

asswipe jenkins
Thursday, February 12, 2004

Philo:  By all means,  explain how this is relevant to this particular bulletin board.

And no,  I haven't seen it.

Bleh
Thursday, February 12, 2004

I had to roll my eyes when they start teasing for a few seconds about a "love interest" blossoming on the show. I guess things got a little boring indeed.

Nigel
Friday, February 13, 2004

They all sort of sucked. Again.

Seriously, does nobody plan? Yeah, you had a day. How long would it have taken everybody to: (a) get information about the charity, and (b) done a rapid brain-storm for every celeb so you walk in the door w/ a dozen suggestions for each?

It's so embarassing for these people. They're performing like they're college students, instead of people with supposed real world management experience. Surely, virtually all of them lack any real substantive level of common sense.

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Friday, February 13, 2004

>I find it incomprehesible that intelligent people watch any of the contrived idiotic "reality" shows. Sheesh...

What? I love reality shows! I love reading this recurring ‘apprentice’ topic, even though we haven’t even got the show in Australia.

If you don’t have anything constructive to say, then go away… I mean that, why is there always those couple of people who post something narky. Is it really nessecary? Can’t we just all grow up and realise (everybody take a seat, this is heavy stuff) – different people like different things for all sorts of different reasons, you may not like it, but unless it is sex with sheep, it doesn’t make it wrong or evil or low or dumb etc– shocking stuff isn’t it, bet you are glad you sat down for it, huh!

Aussie Chick
Friday, February 13, 2004

I agree that Jessie's betrayal lay not in the advice she gave to Kristi, but in her actions in the boardroom.

Kristi confided in her and in return, she turned on her and blamed her for the whole incident.

 

Nads
Friday, February 13, 2004

I got the distinct impression that Trump would have liked to fire all three team members in the boardroom, on the spot.

I know I would have been sorely tempted to spare everyone the misery of putting up with Osorama and Heidi for even another minute.

burninator
Friday, February 13, 2004

I missed the first half of the show.  What was the deal? Were they assigned the celebrities to auction off, and then negotiate with each celebrity to get them to throw in a package?  Did they have to get the celebrity to agree to do the auction, or had the celebrities already committed to that?  Anything interesting happen in the negotiations?

BTW, I have a feeling that Omarosa won't be fired next week -- despite the previews for next week's show.  She won't make it to the top, but she's got a week or two left in her.


P.S. to those naysayers that bash the show and this thread:  I watch only 4 shows on a regular basis - The Sopranos, The Shield, Survivor, and now The Apprentice.  So, Mark Burnett's reality TV shows make up 50% of my viewing time -- because they're entertaining.  I read JoS way more hours / week then I watch TV, but it's also for entertainment.  Let's face it, 95% of the discussions on this board aren't highbrow stuff.  But they are interactions between real people, and just like the TV shows, that's what makes it entertaining.  So lighten up and quit being so pretentious.

Nick
Friday, February 13, 2004

They had to propose something to each celebrity, and eventually agree on a package to be auctioned off. Like spending a day with Regis.

Some of the celebrities looked like they had been instructed to immediately turn down the first three proposals though. It's getting a little more contrived each time.

Nigel
Friday, February 13, 2004

As Trump is a highly successful businessman, I must take his reasons for firing the people he does to heart.  This week with Jessie being fired for taking all of the abuse from Amorosa and not standing up for herself, Donald makes a valid point.  Like the last firing of Kristi, his point this week was about the ability to survive and thrive under business politics. 

When you're a lowly entry level (like me), you receive little criticism unless you screw up.  When you're the president of a company, you face slings and arrows daily, to your face and behind your back.  How can you gain people's respect and ask them to trust in your leadership if you cannot defend yourself when someone challenges you in a meeting?  I don't mean that one ought to be a mean person, but if someone fires on you, you have to fire back.

I think Trump has his crosshairs on Amorosa.  Who's going to follow a leader that treats them like garbage?  Personally, I think leadership is about delegating tasks and trusting your leiutenants to carry them out properly.  It's not about micro-management.  In the negotiation with the designer from Target, Amorosa didn't trust Troy and Jessie.  She kept trying to micro-manage the conversation with Jessie by interjecting a few words here and there.  Troy finally stepped in and saved the day with an idea that was on a completely different train of thought than what Jessie had in mind.  Instead of thinking on a macro-strategic plane, Amorosa trapped her mindset in the tragic direction of Jessie's original "date" idea and wasted valuable seconds thinking about how to micro-manage the situation.  Props to Troy for keeping his eye on the big picture.

Alan
Friday, February 13, 2004

I just finished watching the show, I taped it.

First of all, everyone who criticized the people on the show for being immature, just look at the level of conversation on this board today. I think Clay Shirky's predictions are coming true here, and Joel's "Building a Community with Software" concepts will be put to the test real soon.

This episode almost makes me wish it was still the women v. the men because once you got onto the auction floor, any sex appeal is gone. Your auction is on a piece of paper. Of course they would have somehow worked sexuality into each proposal. "Spend a romantic evening with Carson Daly."

I got a definate Sam flashback with Amorosa questioning why they'd want the phone number to the charity - "How dare you question my decisions," which is an egoistic position to take, so even if she is a good leader when things are going well, I think we can all predict how she will act when the chips are down.

Amorosa is a strong debater, and we see that she's not afraid to go for the throat or hit below the belt in any situation, and you have to be prepared for that.

Jessie is too passive, and she will avoid confrontation at all costs. Heidi isn't afraid of confrontation, but she is afraid of Trump.

Trump is a very confrontational person himself, and when you're put in a position of defending yourself, you're not always going to say the right thing. When you know you're being watched, it's perfectly natural to praise someone when you're asked, no matter what you may think of them. You may not have even fully verbalized your opinion to yourself, so you're being asked to form thoughts as well.

The only person, it seems, who doesn't have that natural instinct is Amorosa, who will do whatever she needs to to get ahead. She breaks some of the social ties Robert Cialdini talked about in Influence, and it seems Trump is asking you to do the same. Be honest and forceful rather than polite.

Watching the Boardroom antics reminded me of an excellent book called Coping with Difficult People by Robert M. Bramson. He outlines certain types of personalities - people who will bulldoze you, attack you, yes you to death and so forth, and specific strategies for dealing with them. Kristi should have read this book rather than consulted with Jessie.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440202019/

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, February 13, 2004

<bleat>
But what does this have to do with software?!
</bleat>

Whiney Poster
Friday, February 13, 2004

"But what does this have to do with software?!"

THAT!

Just for a laugh
Friday, February 13, 2004

What if Trump watches the show, and part of the reason he went for Jesse is the manipulation she performed last week? What would be wrong if he did watch the show? He needs all the info he can get to make a choice.

moses whitecotton
Friday, February 13, 2004

Moses,
I am sure that the show was already competed and taped before the first episode aired.  Just to make sure that nothing like that happened.

For the first time last night I noticed the legal disclaimer in the credits basically saying "The producers of NBC consult with Donald Trump on all elimination decisions, but the decision is ultimately Mr. Trumps."

Matt Watson
Friday, February 13, 2004

I was surprised to learn that Tammy is 36 years old, after her comments about "serious bling" the other time and the constant lame-brained ideas she kept on spouting this week.

T. Norman
Friday, February 13, 2004

I agree Matt, but I was thinking more of him watching some of the "raw" video to gain a little more insight. You know he would do it if he could it real life. Sort of like being able to follow around and watch his people.

moses whitecotton
Friday, February 13, 2004

Above all, we should be constantly aware that this is an entertainment show, for entertainment purposes only.

People here & elsewhere are taking this show WAY too seriously, IMO.

eskimoe joe
Friday, February 13, 2004

Prediction:  Tami is gone next week.

It looked from the previews of next week that versacorp would be in the boardroom, and I wouldn't be surprised if Tami is their leader in losing.  Either way, if versacorp loses, she's definitely one of the 3 in the boardroom.  I look forward to seeing her in there given that she's such a loose cannon.

Ken
Friday, February 13, 2004

I was surprised that there were so many salespeople in on each negotiation.  I would think that having two people stay back at the room and brainstorm and make appointments and research past charity gifts that we sucessfully (by these and other celebrities) would have been more helpful.  Additionally, only two salepeople need to be at each negotiation.

And on the subject of negotiation, why did each group approach each celebrity as either an object of worship (Regis) or as someone who was against them (Issac Mizrahi).  None of them really approached the celebrity as a partner in creating a successful auction.

"Regis, what does you schedule look like in the next several weeks, are you going anywhere interesting or having any high-profile guests or appearances where someone and their significant other could join you?"  Without knowing their schedule how can you create a successful idea? 

Additionally, they occasionaly failed to leverage that which the celebrity had to offer.  The cast of Queer Eye would probably been quite happy to do a makeover writ small for the lucky buyer - that's what makes them well known and that's what people would be expecting from an auction.

And finally, there was little time given to planning.  "Who is this person, have they done anything in the past at such an auction that was successful?  What would be fun/interesting to do with them?"

And let's not even mention the Issac Miz-ah-rahi problem, that was a classic example of when you can only loose by speaking.

Lou
Friday, February 13, 2004

I agree with Lou- Why not take your two best negotiators and have them do _all_ the noegotiating.  Everyone else can brainstorm and do research and all that stuff.  I thought it was awkward when they had like four people talking to a celebrity.  Maybe they just all wanted to have a chance to meet the celebs.  If Jessie was overmatched as a negotiator, than you have place some of the blame on Omerosa for assigning her that job.

Ken
Friday, February 13, 2004

Anyone else totally put off by Hedi's taking great pains to never make a decision when asked a question in the boardroom by Trump ("Who did a bad job?","Who should be fired this week?", etc.)?    She always says something to the effect of "It's not my call." , "It's not my place.", etc.

I find this kind of evasiveness very unattractive in a leader.  I think Hedi is a pretty good candidate overall, but her avoidance technique on direct, relevant questions seems to be a big negative. 

I suppose it has served her well this far.  Maybe she assumes that until it's down to a few people, she doesn't need to respond with something that might upset someone else in the group.

Jason
Friday, February 13, 2004

"I was surprised to learn that Tammy is 36 years old, after her comments about "serious bling" the other time and the constant lame-brained ideas she kept on spouting this week. "

Actually it was her ideas with Carson Daly that made me realize how old she is - AFAIK, most 30-somethings haven't even HEARD of Carson Daly, but the teens and early-20-somethings worship him on a Beatlesque scale.

Imagine a 30-something businessperson saying to Paul McCartney in 1965 "Well, what if we had a concert with a real band and the Beatles?"

As for taking the show too seriously, you're still not getting it - this isn't about "is Trump building a company I want to invest in?" - we're using the show as a springboard for discussion. Imagine if they had a reality show where each week two programming teams had to build some kind of application. Even if they were handed 90% of the code and just had to glue it together, I'm sure the decisions and interactions they had would be worth talking about.

Philo

Philo
Friday, February 13, 2004


The very first step should've been:

"Who is going to be at this auction, and what would THEY be willing to pay a lot of money for?"

Who would best know that other than the charity, why not CALL them!?!?

eskimoe joe
Friday, February 13, 2004

Philo, quite being an ass.  Nowhere did I say that discussion wasn't good.  All I said was that you have to keep in mind that this is an entertainment show.  You obviously haven't been reading the business rags.

eskimoe joe
Friday, February 13, 2004

> Imagine if they had a reality show where each
> week two programming teams had to build some
> kind of application.

Next week on Fox:

"Watch spellbound as BOB holds a meeting! Will TIM finally persuade MARIA that hungrarian notation is "right up there with genocide. Seriously."? How far will the completely arbitrary schedule slip? EXCITMENT! THRILLS! ACTION! All on...

My Big Fat Obnoxious Programmer"

No. Ironically it is too close to reality to be a reality show.

Burninator
Friday, February 13, 2004

"unexpectedly, Jeff pops his head up over his cube and in his nasally voice quips 'this would already be done if we were using delphi".

Tune in next week.

eskimoe joe
Friday, February 13, 2004

> Imagine if they had a reality show where each
> week two programming teams had to build some
> kind of application.

I would totally watch a show like that.  Like Junkyard Wars but building software.  Though I imagine it would be pretty broing if you knew nothing about software development.

Ken
Friday, February 13, 2004

Tammy/Tami is great. She's the new Sam. Everytime she opens her mouth something stupid comes out.

Trump and pals seemed to think the decisions were getting tough, but to me it looks like there are still some obvious choices.

Clutch Cargo
Friday, February 13, 2004

Next week on "My Big Fat Obnoxious Programmer":

Watch Maria bitch-slap Tim for suggesting that only losers use emacs instead of vi. Meanwhile, Jeff worries that he'll soon be training his H1-B replacement and delivering pizzas after getting his pink slip.

Foo Fighters Fan
Friday, February 13, 2004

>Tammy/Tami is great.  She's the new Sam.
>Everytime she opens her mouth
>something stupid comes out.


Obviously, they cut hundred of hours of film per week, then whittle it down to an hour.  I'm sure the producers could say "Let's make Troy look bad this week", cut some film and add some sound effects, and make Troy look like "The New Sam"  We all make big tactical blunders, we just don't have a TV Camera stuck in our face when we say them.

All THAT said:  Tammy clearly made some tactical mistakes.

What AMAZED ME:  The other players did not CORRECT the mistakes, they just kept harping on them.  Tammy didn't really get any feedback from anyone else that she was out of line, and kept making the mistakes.

Then again, if you do correct her, she will look better should she have to face the board, which makes you look worse.  hmm ...

If I were trump and she did that AGAIN, and I had hindsight, I'd fire the PM unless they knew they failed to correct her and admitted it when I asked, and had a reason why ...

Matt H.
Friday, February 13, 2004

"What about golf... golf?  Golf? Golf?  golf golf?"

Either of the two people there should have clutched their phone, looked at it and said, "Excuse me Carson, it's the Auction house.  Tammi, could you join me?"

That provides a cover story that's relatively believable and provides an opportunity to fix the problem (Tammi was shooting way too high and wasn't on the same page as everyone else - including the celebrities).  They needed to address that then and there, not whine about it later.

That said, I nearly died when she asked Rocco to fly someone to France on his (non-existant) private jet.

Lou
Friday, February 13, 2004

We need to come up with a standard set of disclaimers...

We know that they can edit the footage to make someone look good or bad, we don't know of trump watches the video, and hindsight is 20/20, we're all monday morning quarterbacks here, we're using the show as a springboard for discussion.

It's obviously summer/fall while the show was being taped - the lemonade stand stuff was done outdoors without jackets. New York has had so many snow storms this year you'd definately recognize it if it was any time in the past 2 months. I always wonder about the taxi cabs they take. What NYC Taxi Cab doesn't have the plastic partition? The camera man sits in the passenger seat, and points the camera back. You can't do that in an ordinary cab.

Tammi should have been talked to, absolutely. If they at any time between the two interviews took the time to say to the camera that she needed to be stopped, then she needed to be talked to because it was in their minds.

The celebrities should've been approached differently, Carson Daly was handled the best, I think - where can you add value in your day to day life. They were too intent on creating a sales pitch, but everyone was already signed up. Though I can also understand the fear of showing up and not having any ideas and not being able to settle on anything.

Something along the lines of "We're doing a celebrity auction, for the Pediatric Aids Foundation where what's being auctioned off is some time with you. We have a few ideas we'd like to bounce off of you, or act as a springboard for discussion. Obviously we want to make it as fun and painelss as possible for both of you, and highlight what really makes you special. Here are some of the ideas we came up with..."

Who will be fired next, Philo, Stephen Jones or Aussie Chick? Can J.D. Trollinger be stopped? Will MarkTAW's constant meta discussion spiral out of control? (well on a forum about the weblog about the show, which is really just about our experiences...) Find out next season on.. The Apprentice 2.

http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Apprentice/apprentice_2_apply_now.shtml

1 Download and complete the application.
2 Create a VHS videotape (maximum length 10 minutes) showing us why you would be the perfect Apprentice in the Trump Organization.
3 Submit the completed application and VHS tape (with no other enclosed items) no later than March 4, 2004.

Step #2 being the most important, naturally. Come on.. You know you wanna, it's even more exclusive than Orkut.

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, February 13, 2004



Seriously, I'll bet Joel could do something with Fog Creek that would be pretty nifty.

Something like Phillip Greenspun tried to do with the Ars Digita University - have a "school" where people learn your tricks, then pick the best grads to work for you.

If Fog Creek was only a few hundred times it's size, it could afford something really classy.

We need a microsoft for this ...

No, that would be stupid, because it would be the apprentice to the CEO  - a VP position.

For JoS readers, we need a small ISV, where you get to be one of the lead software architects.  Like the company eric sink runs ...

Matt H.
Friday, February 13, 2004

My last post was all about a potential "Apprentice" for computer science, if that was not clear ...

Matt H.
Friday, February 13, 2004

Oh please!
Trump would keep a lazy superior worthless
miss thing like omarosa around for what reason?
ratings?
surely not talent.
maybe Trump needs to grow a pair!

Jo-Anna Hehir
Friday, February 20, 2004

Keep your lying act up Amorosa - you will end up like your brother.  And while you are at it, take Erica's advice and get some professional counselling, darling.  She told you some truths you couldn't handle about yourself so you have to lie and sue her?  Who will people believe?!  The truth is, you have been CAUGHT lying to the whole world on CAMERA on NATIONAL TV!  Beauty queen?  You are a joke!  Deep down -you are the diva of ugliness - I feel sorry for your husband.  Your DISCREDIT everyone who choose to associate with you.

Aman Dawu
Friday, April 16, 2004

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