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Contd..Display the sine graph of a sound file

This is to say a word of thanks for your help on the topic posted here

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=96078&ixReplies=22


Martin, Brad, Smiley and Trollumination!

Thanks a zillion, guys, especially, Martin, Brad and Trollumination. First of all, an endless thanks to the person with the screen name Trollumination. It is sad to know that a guy as deserving as you are is in between employments. If I could do something about it, it would only make me a happier person. You seem to have an encyclopedic quotient on phonology. What I could so probably is recommend your name to one of my clients and if he could probably contact you. What part of the world do you stay in? Trollumination, I am overwhelmed by your informative excellence.

Thanks, Martin, Smiley and Brad, I was completely lost when I started off. By now, I've read your posts over and over again, munched them, chewed on every nibble of your writing, gone back to the Web and seen relevant links on Pulse Code Modulation (PCM), the Wave File Format, Codec and LAME (that Trollumination mentioned). Now, if not supremely confident of what I have ahead, I at least know where to start. You have given me a panorama into the distinctiveness of each of the three popular file formats - WAV, MIDI and MP3, the ones I'll need to use in this application. Smiley, the links you posted were useful. I won't say I got everything of what they said, but yet.

Skeptical and Confused, your remark was extremely ignorant. I won't say I know everything I am asked to write a proposal on, but I try my bit to gather information. And I am the studious kinds. I am the guy who likes the nasty stuff and I'll sleep less but I know I will study what I am asked to thoroughly. I find this forum a place where many intelligent people meet, so I come here for advise. I don't think that must be understood as an appeal to do the legwork.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Saturday, December 20, 2003

The issue I have with you is twofold:

1. You did not even do basic research on google about mp3 and mid files, but rather decided to save time by getting free advice from desparate unemployed experts. That's good for you but I don't respect it at all and I pity the poor saps that sucked up to you hoping for a job referral which I know you will not give them. Standard etiquette is to at least do a tiny bit of research so you can talk somewhat knowledgeably about something before asking others for help. Your claim to be a hard worker who studies hard is a lie - if that was the least bit true, you would have known more before you asked. Googling is not hard but it does take a few minutes.

2. You are obviously applying for contracts that you are not suited for, taking work away from others that are far more deserving and will do a faster and better job because they have experience. Again, that's good for you but I don't have to pretend to respect it. I find it despicable and dishonest.

Skeptical
Saturday, December 20, 2003

>but rather decided to save time by getting free advice from desparate unemployed experts.

>and I pity the poor saps that sucked up to you hoping for a job referral which I know you will not give them

>Your claim to be a hard worker who studies hard is a lie - if that was the least bit true, you would have known more before you asked

>You are obviously applying for contracts that you are not suited for, taking work away from others that are far more deserving and will do a faster and better job because they have experience


Skeptical, you are presumptous and highly opinionated.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Saturday, December 20, 2003

Fair enough, but show where I am wrong:

1. Did you save time by getting free advise from desperate unemployed experts?

2. Can you demonstrate to us some job leads you have provided to those who helped you?

3. Can you show that you did some research into mp3 and mid file formats and audio dsp engineering before asking for help?

4. Can you show that you are better suited for these contracts than the folks such as Trollumination, an unemployed expert in the field.

If you can show that I am wrong on these 4 points, then yes, I am presumptuous and opinionated. But if you can not prove these things to us, then it shows us what you really are -- lazy, an incompetant and a liar.

Skeptical
Saturday, December 20, 2003

>1. Did you save time by getting free advise from desperate unemployed experts?

Excuse me! Mind what you say. As if I went looking for "desperate unemployed experts". Why do you have to disparage those who have helped me out? And what is the harm in asking for advise on a forum?


>2. Can you demonstrate to us some job leads you have provided to those who helped you?

This is ridiculous, Skeptical. Just look at what you are talking. If you saught advise from someone on this forum, are you obliged to find employment for the person who helped you? However, I also need not showcase my sincerity to you to prove that I will do my best that is within my rights and my means to refer Trollumination.


>3. Can you show that you did some research into mp3 and mid file formats and audio dsp engineering before asking for help?

I did not. I do not deny I that I did not research the file formats before asking the question and I am not attempting to hide it at all. If someone asks a basic question, do you then deduce that that someone is stupid? I do not see any logic in this deduction, Skeptical.


>4. Can you show that you are better suited for these contracts than the folks such as Trollumination, an unemployed expert in the field.

No, I cannot. And I also do not deny that I am not knowledgable *as of yet* even in the field. But that does not become your business to certify my capabilities. Do you know every darn thing under the sun before you bag the project? Of course, I would have loved to be at the helm and take only work that I know everything about. But I am not self-employed, ok? And I am trying with all earnestness to do a job that has been assigned to me.


>But if you can not prove these things to ****us****, then it shows *****us***** what you really are -- lazy, an incompetant and a liar.

Who's the ***us*** here? I am going to end it here because I do not wish to waste any more of my time debating your assessment of my professional individuality. I don't need no certification from you. Besides, I think you are probably biased because of your circumstances. No offence intended.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Saturday, December 20, 2003

Sat,

My own situation, though none of your business is that I am CIO of a large corporation. My experience has been that I see lots of fakers getting proposals by submitting phoney credentials that they get by pullign net scams like yours. Con artists like your self are never able to deliver but just waste everybody's time as well as make things worse for legitimately skilled employees.

Skeptical
Saturday, December 20, 2003

Guy, you seem to have lost communicability in your writing. You've been calling me many names.

Anyway, what you forget is that the application I am talking about is for the vertical market, unlike an accounting or an office automation application which gels horizontally industry-wide. So with every specialized application, you would definitely spend time in R&D and you're not expected to know everything. For instance, if you were a science student and knew not what goes into debit and what comes into credit and you were to build a Document Management Solution for Sarbanes Oxley compliance, you would need to start somewhere with the basics. That wouldn't mean you were one of those conmen that you picture.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Saturday, December 20, 2003

How many more minutes until this thread is deleted?

I am going to go a step farther than Skeptical and say that the real dishonesty lies elsewhere, most likely at a level beyond Sathyaish.  The functionality described is so commonplace that the client is either fooling themselves, or allowing themselves to be fooled into reinventing the wheel.

Sathyaish and/or Sathyaish's boss, and the client(s) should all be honest with themselves and each other and solve this by making some calls out to an existing piece of sound editing software instead of spending so much time and money to build a half-assed solution. When I had to write something that would send faxes from an application screen, I simply found some fax software that could be called from the application and figured out how to make those calls, instead of wasting time researching fax and modem protocols.

--
Saturday, December 20, 2003

Damn, I wish I hadn't been moving house while this thread was developing!!  *grin*

I'm the owner of a relatively small company (8 staff at present), and I'm 100% with Skeptical's comments. Your company is FAKING its expertise.

Why doesn't this surprise me?  It is the standard operating method of Infosys, Wipro, and others of their global consulting ilk.

HeWhoMustBeConfused
Sunday, December 21, 2003

"You did not even do basic research on google about mp3 and mid files, but rather decided to save time by getting free advice from desparate unemployed experts. That's good for you but I don't respect it at all and I pity the poor saps that sucked up to you hoping for a job referral which I know you will not give them. " - Skeptical

I wouldn't consider myself a "poor sap".  As it happens, I am unemployed as of the end of this month - but I have good expectations of finding a position where I can advance my career, although I will not get into my particular situation and career goals at this place and time for reasons of privacy and because I wish not to be dragged into a furthur flamefest.

As I mentioned before, I am simply somebody who has written audio editors and related applications before, and would be happy to give advice.  Is that a bad thing to do?  Why is it necessary to shout down this poster?  I've also got quite a few reusable components from said applications, so wouldn't the logical thing for me to do be to offer them to someone who could put them to good use?  This very night I did the final mastering, dynamic equalization, and normalization on a song I'd mixed - using my own software, what could be better than that?  Must I be so suspicious of other people, or so full of false pride, that I may not even offer my own tools and expertise?

Trollumination
Monday, December 22, 2003

>I am going to go a step farther than Skeptical and say that the real dishonesty lies elsewhere, most likely at a level beyond Sathyaish.

You got that!


I re-iterate, I am working for someone and not self-employed. If I were self-employed, I would have rather chosen to do work I best know about. However, the situation, as it is given to me, am trying to do whatever I can to fulfil my obligation. It is only subjective to assume that I am inept and also insincere. And I have not denied my nescience on the topic, nor to you, nor to my bosses.

Skeptical, you have no knowledge of the previous projects I have delivered and their success rate and hence it was only ignorant of you to have made those remarks just based on this situation, which I have not attempted to hide either. Its easy to sit and talk idealism. But its not easy to survive in the imperfect world.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Monday, December 22, 2003

"However, the situation, as it is given to me, am trying to do whatever I can to fulfil my obligation."

Apparently that doesn't include doing a bit of preliminary reading before you go running to the nearest web forum to ask someone to tell you how to do your job.  I don't agree with a lot of what Skeptical has said, but I do agree on one point.  You displayed a great deal of laziness in not bothering to perform even the most basic investigation into this subject before posting.  I'm actually quite surprised you got as many responses as you did.  Personally, I hold to the rule that if you can't be bothered to help yourself by doing a bit of homework then I'm not going to waste my time responding to your questions.

anon
Monday, December 22, 2003

Eventually, I did do my homework. In fact I am still doing it. Yes, but not before I made the post. That's also because its beneficial to have someone who's done the stuff to give you a head start and then you can go looking into a specific area rather than feel lost in the myriad of literature available on the web. That's the only reason I usually post to forums while at the same time I am also studying from the Web.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Monday, December 22, 2003

"That's also because its beneficial to have someone who's done the stuff to give you a head start and then you can go looking into a specific area rather than feel lost in the myriad of literature available on the web."

That's the laziness that I was talking about, wanting someone to "give you a head start" without any effort on your part.  If you had at least surveyed a bit of the information out there and were asking questions along the lines of, "I'm trying to do X.  I looked on the web and found a few references but I don't really understand <some topic>.  Could someone recommend some books/web sites that will help me figure this out?" then you would get a far more positive response to your post.  If you don't do enough homework beforehand to be able to post intelligent directed questions about the topic then you're being lazy and you should expect to get flamed for it.

anon
Monday, December 22, 2003

You also brought out the wrath because your posting title was so stupid, and you are still using your blowhard 19th century englishman posting style. Display the sine graph of a sound file??? WTF. Using your document management example, your post was the equivalent of saying:

"Dear Fellowes, I must beseech you for a bit of advice. I've been forthrightly tasked with the development of a computing programme which displays a tabulated ledger of sums and balances. I've decided to give this a bit of a go, and know that there must be some type of accounting for credits and debits. If anyone you chaps are skilled with the electronic display of documents in relation to finance, I'd be a knackered cod if you could offer some advice. Cheers!"

for the love of god
Monday, December 22, 2003

>and you are still using your blowhard 19th century englishman posting style

To be honest, colloqualism, out of the many other things, is one thing I have to learn from you folks.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Monday, December 22, 2003

Speaking of which, I'm trying to build a program that will display a colloqualism.  Please help me.  Tell me all about colloqualism.  Thank you.

Sathyaish Chakravarthy
Tuesday, December 23, 2003

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