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Better then RSS? Jabber - Publish/Subscribe

Here is nice article of new way of doing same as RSS do, but it push style.

http://ralphm.net/blog/2003/10/05#pubsub_rss

And image describing how it works

http://mimir.ik.nu/about

In two words. On every news web server will send jabber notification (it is as simple as sending e-mail) to nearest jabber server, which relay it to every interested (subsribed) party. It could be end user, or news-agregator. Also it could be a proxy, wich deliver single notification to some company(group) and only then relay it to all interested end users.

Nekto
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

Didn't Push die with IE 4?

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

It's more like just creating a Usenet group with only one person posting.

Ankur
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

Radio, for exampe, pings the server which causes a pull.
Pushing on the large scale can't work.

son of parnas
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

Why can't push work on a large scale?  We do it.. or at least we attempt to do it.. and I think it comes off quite elegantly.  Check it out.. go to  www.serence.com and download the consumer version of Klipfolio.

What this does.. it polls all kinds of areas (both public and private, assuming you have access privs) via, very developable, Klips - a development kit is provided - go berserk.  There is a site with a number of pre-developed Klips available and which the "skins" can be borrowed.  Find this at www.klipfarm.com

This essentially creates a "clipping service" through a collection of Klips of your choosing and with your filters.  This technology is very aptly applied via a corporate license to internal data of all kinds.  Klips can scrape virtually anything, any data - structured or unstructured - and pushes it to a very wide audience.  The version I'm pointing you to is the open version and will peel only public data and put it inside a single device (a windows desktop) - but if web-based news-of-all-kinds is what you are looking for - then go bonkers..  weather, stocks, newsfeeds, groups, competitive info.. should all be there.  Unlike most "feeders" - we've attempted to make this one multi-channel, multi-medium (press outlet type medium) and multi-user.

Seriously - check it out... I'd welcome your feedback.

Push didn't die with anything.. most corporations are looking for this kind of model.. which is why they continue to purchase large-ticket items like Lotus Notes.

Sue Canada
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

Scrape and peel?

Sounds like some kind of facial astringent process.

Simon Lucy
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

If you have 1000,000 users pushing data
constantly to your servers, will it work?

son of parnas
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

I was talking about Push to the desktop from the Web. When was the last time you saw anyone with any IE channels on their Windows desktop?

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

ok.. I'm game.. let me have a go at answering..

----
Scrape and peel?

Sounds like some kind of facial astringent process.

Simon Lucy
Tuesday, October 21, 2003
----

Simon, it's probably something I could use - but no, I didn't mean it in that context. 

"Scrape" is a standard word for the scraping of screen-based data from some other application into another newer one.  Typically used to be done with old green-screen applications - to bring them and their contents to some other display medium where you can make it look more modern.  In this day and age - likely Windows.  Screen scraping is what companies like NetManage are really good at.

"Peel".. typically refers to peeling data from database tables - I believe the old-fashioned term is "lookup".  Except, by implication, peeling data allows for modification and write-back to some other database table.
----

If you have 1000,000 users pushing data
constantly to your servers, will it work?

son of parnas
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

----

Parnas - yes - that can be and is done.  Merely a matter of money... your (I'm assuming you're in the US) Department responsible for dishing out welfare cheques do this via an e-form which can be filled in on-line and returned to a server or cluster of servers.  Their numbers are in the range you specify.  About a million years ago, JetForm Corp (now Adobe) did this volume and higher, with their form server products.  We Canadians do the same volume (slightly higher now I think) with the same model in filing our annual tax. 

But that is NOT the model I was referring to - it is the reverse.  One server or a cluster of servers dishing stuff up to 1,000,000 desktops.  Done all the time.  Yes, we can do it - but it doesn't make us peculiar. 

The Hong Kong Jockey Club, for instance do four times this volume each Saturday afternoon during the racing season.  In fact, surely MSN reaches this kind of audience (and Yahoo and so on) all the time.  Certainly AOL do out of their Reston VA server farms.
----

I was talking about Push to the desktop from the Web. When was the last time you saw anyone with any IE channels on their Windows desktop?

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

----

John.. So was I. 

You see it all the time.  It's typically called "ticker" services and I think PointCast news was the first.  Most stock exchanges regularly do this and certainly most of the IM services that I subscribe to do it all the time.

Is it pure IE?  Likely not so excuse me if I took some license with your answer.

Sue Canada
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

The push hype died.

Pub/sub has been alive and well for a long time.

fool for python
Wednesday, October 22, 2003

Jabber is like network of mail servers.
You just need not support 1.000.000 users on a single node.

You could think of it as a sites with annonce e-mail lists.

Nekto
Thursday, October 23, 2003

<The push hype died.>

No.. it didn't. 

The push hype died around Knowledge Management - it was reborn in something now called Dashboards..  and CPM... and CRM.. and KPI Management.

<pub/sub>

??? publish and submit???  eh?...

Sue Canada
Thursday, October 23, 2003

ok.. gotcha on pub/sub.. hmmm.. dunno.  It's probably not wide enough to take on a plethora of both structured and unstructured data.

I'll cogitate on that one but there are loads of reasons that wouldn't work on legacy systems out to a massive (highly interested) audience.

Sue Canada
Thursday, October 23, 2003

pub/sub = Publish/Subscribe (see subject :)

that means publish only to interested.

I see reasons for this not to work with such systems. Until jabber is popular enough.

Still some simple software could be implemented to receive pub/sub events and generate RSS feed from them on local side :)

Nekto
Friday, October 24, 2003

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