Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board




Made Me Laugh...

"iTunes for Windows is probably the best Windows application ever written."

Steve Jobs

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Monday, October 20, 2003

<g> you have a problem with steve jobs marketing his companies products?

FullNameRequired
Monday, October 20, 2003

Perhaps Heineken should sue under 'look and feel'

Simon Lucy
Monday, October 20, 2003

That would be Carlsberg, I suppose.
See the problem with funny advertising? Few will remember the product, just the catchy ad. :-)

ice
Monday, October 20, 2003

Duh

Simon Lucy
Monday, October 20, 2003

When presenting to a room full of Mac users, presenting a port of Mac software to Windows as the best windows app ever is probably a reasonable statement to those people.

I read it, I laughed, and I thought it was 90% true.

Of course I'm just impressed they were able to rewrite an Objective-C app written on top of (and highly leveraging) the Cocoa frameworks and bring that over to Windows.

Lou
Monday, October 20, 2003

Just a shame there is no maximise button.

Tony Edgecombe
Monday, October 20, 2003

As an avid Mac user, I agree with the above comment.  I'm annoyed that iTunes doesn't maximize the way other applications do.

But yeah, it's a reasonably funny comment to be made to a room full of Mac users.

The Pedant, Brent P. Newhall
Monday, October 20, 2003

Tony, I am with you. What do mac-heads have against the maximize button. On my wife's iMac I get so frustrated trying to maximize the Safari browser for the 12 inch screen. I just picture the Software Engineer in charge of window sizing at Apple using the latest Desktop (i.e. G5) with dual 23" apple displays.

m
Monday, October 20, 2003

Could you clarify the above?  When I maximize Safari on my 12 inch iBook I get a full width screen and full height (excepting the dock).

Apple's HIG states that applications should not place themselves behind the dock.

Do you see a different behaviour on your computer?  Or do you want it to fill behind the dock as well?

Lou
Monday, October 20, 2003

How do you make your maximize button fill both horizontally and vertically? Clicking maximize on my Mac only fills vertically, and I hate it!

Bobo
Monday, October 20, 2003

When I hit the green "+" button on the top of a Safari window, I get it maximized from top to bottom (as the dock is on the left). It does not maximize left to right as I would expect. I do not expect for it to maximize underneath the dock, but use all other space.

m
Monday, October 20, 2003

Feature or a bug?

The Finder always maximized to show you all the content in the window, but no bigger.  That has become part of the Mac look and feel, and has been taken up by other applications as well.

Of course, Windows apps should act like Windows apps, even if it offends a Mac user's sensibilities.  It will be interesting to see if Apple tweaks iTunes to more closely match Windows guidelines over time.

Jim Rankin
Monday, October 20, 2003

Jobs thinks different.

Johnny Bravo
Monday, October 20, 2003

Feature or bug? I don't care, but when I maximize something, I expect it maximized to the screens physical dimensions, not to the Apple Software Engineer's one-dimension algorithm. That said, I do LOVE iTunes for WinXP.

m
Monday, October 20, 2003

just for the record itunes is not written in objective-c and cocoa. it is developed in powerplant, i think.

i love it but then again i have a mac and use itunes for 2 years.

machead
Monday, October 20, 2003

There is no maximize button in OS X software.  The green button is fit to content.  Once you use OS X for a while you begin to wonder why people feel the need to maximize all applications anyways.

Anonymous
Monday, October 20, 2003

Reasons to maximize application windows:
- Use all available screen real estate for the task at hand.
- Cut out the visual distraction of the desktop or other windows.
- Eliminate any confusion about which window will get your input.
- Did I mention using ALL of the available screen real estate for the task at hand? Not just the fraction some software engineer decided should be enough?


(On the other hand, thanks for the explanation of OS X green button behavior. On the rare occasions when I need to test something on a Mac, teeny-tiny cramped windows that refuse to size themselves correctly are one of my pet peeves. At least now I know that I'm not hitting the wrong color button; there simply isn't a button that'll do what I want.)

Martha
Monday, October 20, 2003

> Jobs thinks different.

That's true.  I bet there was a lot of discussion about what to do about the maximize button, and Jobs just gave the orders and that's what we got. 

Jobs wants to give the apple experience on windows with this app.  It is a ploy to win over users, and make a few bucks as well.  Maybe a few will think, "Damn this is great.  I want my whole computer to work this way," and buy a Mac. 

I actually liked the behavior for the application.  It gives you exactly what you need to view your play list, with out a bunch of wasted space.

For the first time I am considering not only buying a Mac, but developing for it as well.

christopher baus (tahoe, nv)
Monday, October 20, 2003

I never gave much thought to the green button, I just knew it worked for what I intended it.  On my iBook (12 inch monitor) I have my browser sized to fit the width of the screen usually.  That's just how I have it sized. So if I do hit the green button it simply fills the screen.

But if I shrink the window the green button fills vertically (if the page is long) and fits the content horizontally.  Its nice that it doesn't override my width unless it is too small to fit the content I'm viewing.

And while maximizing a browser window, or iTunes window, etc on a 12 inch screen makes some sense, maximizing it on a 20 inch screen (or worse 23 inch) would be nuts.

One must note that the Mac, unlike Windows, offers many visual cues to identify the active window (window shadows, colored buttons in only the active window, app name in the upper left corner, and the whole document model concept).  So there's no real need from that perspective.

I suppose its something that Mac users just come to expect, I think I'd be irritated if it worked any other way.

Lou
Monday, October 20, 2003

Oh I dunno, I think I can come up with a few windows programs that are "better" then Itunes.  Like maybe...say....Explorer?  Or maybe the web browser...

Vince
Monday, October 20, 2003

There is no max button. It's the 'zoom' button.

On Mac, windows can have two sizes and each size is supposed to be persistent. The zoom button TOGGLES between the two sizes. There is nothing to stop you from making one of those sizes fill the screen, just like in Windows. But with the Mac, you have the additional option of it being some other size if you like.

So, press zoom. It gets big. Move the window to the upper left corner of your screen. Move the resizer to fill the screen. Press green. Goes back to small. Press again. Now it fills the screen, now and every time in the future unless you change it.

This particular UI widget allows all the functionality of Windows but also allows you to do more as well.

Ed the Millwright
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

Vince,

I hope you aren't talking about IE when you say web browser.

christopher baus (tahoe, nv)
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

Internet Explorer is a web browser. That's orthogonal to the question of whether it's any good or not.


Tuesday, October 21, 2003

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home