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Not only TI, Levi's closes last USA plants


http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=levi%27s+close&btnG=Search+News

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/7669226.htm

really not so nice future for lot of people, maybe a better future for others...

Guillermo
Friday, January 09, 2004

I think it might backfire. Levis has been selling genuine jeans made in varying places for a long time, and the made in Thailand are cheaper than the made in Brazil, which are cheaper than the made in America.

You often get shops that sell all three. Plenty of people such as myself would ask for the "Made In America" jeans because the fit was better (the others were made for the local market and Thias have bigger 'srses and shorter legs than Americans for the equivalent waist size), and the quality control was better.

Now we are not going to be spending the $50-$60 these cost if we can't be sure they are any different. The first pair that doesn't feel right and Levis will have lost a customer of thirty years.

And it's not political. I only ever buy American goods if I can't find a reasonable alternative, on principle.

And lastly, the effect will probably be small. Garment manufacturing fled the high wage econimies a long time ago. Most Levi sweat shops have probably been abroad for a long time.

Stephen Jones
Friday, January 09, 2004

"I only ever buy American goods if I can't find a reasonable alternative, on principle."

You saying you avoid American goods deliberately or have I misunderstood? On the subject of boycotts I must confess that I wonder whether all the people who boan about foreigners taking their jobs then go to the supermarket and buy non-(insert local country here) made goods.


Friday, January 09, 2004

You really have to wonder if the biggest winners of global trade (and similarly the real winners of internet commerce) are the shipping companies: Now every trinket and component comes from all over the globe (much as the biggest beneficiary of ebay and the like are the UPS and Purolators of the world). Imagine how upset the worldwide trade apple cart would be if the price of oil skyrocketed, and the true energy cost was factored in. As it is I'm often amazed to see quite large, often heavy, cheap goods selling for next to nothing, and it's been shipped all the way from China.

Dennis Forbes
Friday, January 09, 2004

My friend is an engineer in the auto industry, and he lives outside Detroit.  He drives a Jetta.  Go figure.

bob
Friday, January 09, 2004

If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Jones lives in the U.K.. So good for me for shopping Europe first, better to feed his neighbors than mine.

No different than my purchasing US and Canadian goods over goods of equal or lesser value from someplace else.  It puts food on the table of my neighbors.

Marc
Friday, January 09, 2004

"So good for me" should read "So good for him".

....Edit is your friend Joel... :)

Marc
Friday, January 09, 2004

No, the guy that lives in the UK is Steve Jones (UK).

I live in Saudi Arabia in term time, and Sri Lanka in vacation time, though I am from the UK, and the greatest proportion of my adult life has been spent in Spain or Catalunya so go figure.

The reason I prefer not to buy American goods is in protest agains its foreign policy, particularly its bankrolling of the displacement and murder of Palestinians.

Unfortunately or not, my respect for something well made is greater than my political convictions, so large chunks of my money go back to the US.

Sometimes it gets to be really difficult to decide. Until we made draconian regulations banning mobile phones I was very tempted to buy a mobile phone blocker. The trouble was that the only decent ones in the market were made in Israel (it seems they even managed to shut up the MP's in the Israeli Parliament so they must have been industrial quality). The lady from sales was very sweet and told me she could arrange to have the shipping bill from more or less any country in the world, and that they sold a lot in the Mideast. In the end the deal-breaker was that I wasn't prepared to spend $1200 of my money on something the employer should have provided, and risk my job as well.

However the interesting thing was that nearly all the mosques in Saudi had set one up, and as I said, I never found any other country that made them apart from Israel. The idea of Saudi wahabis inadverntly breaking the anti-Israel boycott so that their Friday diatribes against Israeil appealed to my sense of the absurd. They have now stopped using them, on the dubious pretext that they interfered with pacemakers, though I suspect the only carciac problems were influential members of the congragation getting increased blood pressure at the though of having to turn their mobiles off for ten minutes.

Stephen Jones
Friday, January 09, 2004

In reference to cheap chinese bulk goods being expensive to ship when factoring in the "true cost of oil," it's worth nothing that most of those are shipped by container ship and as such, they benefit from quite massive economies of scales. Who cares if the shipping lead time is a month on 12000 bath towels?

Saruman
Friday, January 09, 2004

"it's worth nothing that most of those are shipped by container ship and as such, they benefit from quite massive economies of scales"

I certainly won't disagree that there are efficiencies in shipping huge quantities over, say, a guy with a speedboat and a bunch of barrels of gas in the back shipping a bag full.

Having said that, I think it'd be a gross understatement to say that shipping becomes a non-factor just because you're shipping a lot : That giant freighter isn't powered on good intentions to ship a boatload 10,000 km. I don't know the mpg figures for a freighter pushing through the oceans, but I suspect it slurps back fuel at a tremendous pace -- and we're not talking about shipping diamonds, but shipping a freighter full of rubber duckies or toys.

Dennis Forbes
Friday, January 09, 2004

As a sidenote, I didn't say "true cost of oil", I said "true cost of energy". The reason we're hooked on oil is that it's a tremendously valuable gift from nature: Huge energy in an easily usable form. There is no other form of energy (except for maybe wind if they put giant sails on those freighters) that can be as easily used.

Dennis Forbes
Friday, January 09, 2004

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

"The giant retailer's low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart's relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to the unemployment line?"

Jonathan
Friday, January 09, 2004

(The Wal-Mart article mentions Levi's and what they needed to do to sell at Wal-Mart)

Jonathan
Friday, January 09, 2004

> I don't know the mpg figures for a freighter pushing through the oceans

500 to 1000 ton-miles per gallon.

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/publications/buspub/baumel01.html

Christopher Wells
Friday, January 09, 2004

The Levi's thing really irked me.  I had been buying Levi's my whole life, and the quality has gone to crap.  I now buy luckybrand and diamond cut jeans which are both made in the US. 

christopher baus (www.baus.net)
Friday, January 09, 2004

"The reason I prefer not to buy American goods is in protest agains its foreign policy, particularly its bankrolling of the displacement and murder of Palestinians."

Ah, you're one of those.    So sad.

Non-Aryan Anglo-Saxon
Friday, January 09, 2004

How the F can you be a non-Aryan Anglo-Saxon?

Unless you come from the same place you get five dollar Levis and Rolexes from!

Stephen Jones
Friday, January 09, 2004

I read about the levis stuff a few months ago and agree with the sentiments here. I used to buy them because they were made in the US and had a better cut and really good stitching and lasted longer. Not because of the brand, not because of the politics, not because of the style (levis ar e kind of ugly actually), but because they were better made and I was willing to pay a premium for that. I am familiar with pants made overseas and they aren't the same. But now that levis are going to be just another overseas levis-copy, there is no point to paying extra for them. I will start buying the cheaper brands now and look back fondly on the old days when I could buy a decent pair of pants.

Sometimes foreign goods are far superior to american products regardless of price. This is when the foreign companies make products that they are good at. For example, items requiring a lot of traditional craftsmenship. Several years ago, I got a Baglama Saz and a Fey from Turkey. I am really fond of these instruments and have never seen anything  even remotely comparable from the US. I also have a set of Pakistani bagpipes - they are every bit as good as those from Scotland, and a large collection of African drums.

Unfortunately, this may be the last generation these items are available as the local craftsmen abandon their native trades and go to work at the Coca Cola bottling plant or take jobs working at the Levi's textile plant.

Admirer of Quality Goods and Crafts
Friday, January 09, 2004

I have the same principle as Stephen Jones. No American products whatsoever.

Cosmo Kramer
Friday, January 09, 2004

"luckybrand and diamond cut jeans"

Thanks much Chris, I will be on the lookout for those brands. Haven't seen them before but will suggest to all tho local shops that they carry them if they want my business.

Admirer of Quality Goods and Crafts
Friday, January 09, 2004

European products of much higher quality than that of Americans. I gotta admit though, some Canadian products are really really good such as roots:

http://www.roots.com/new_canada/html/index_canada.shtml

Cosmo Kramer
Friday, January 09, 2004

Put your money where your mouth is.  Don't like outsourcing?  When was the last time you bought American made jeans?  Think about that...

http://www.luckybrandjeans.com/
http://www.diamondcutjeans.com/

christopher baus (www.baus.net)
Friday, January 09, 2004

"I have the same principle as Stephen Jones. No American products whatsoever. "

Same here, except I make every attempt to avoid any European products. Most of them suck anyway.

Bah
Friday, January 09, 2004

I don't buy anything. I just live in the woods. It's real peaceful here.

Theodore Kaczinski
Friday, January 09, 2004

Disney's been hit too:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=599&e=8&u=/nm/entertainment_disney_dc

They are shutting down their animation facility and laying off 260 animators.

Turns out this b*tard race of "Programmers" from the land of "Automatia" invented machines that replace their jobs.

Congress needs to put a stop to this. I am calling on everyone here who loves that which is good and decent to demand that Congress pass a law banning work done by these Programmers in Automatia, work that destroys the careers of hardworking American artists.

Patriot
Sunday, January 11, 2004

I buy used American made Levi's on ebay. I won't buy their high profit margin, sweat shop manufactured, off shore new jeans. I used to love Levi's for their durability, fit, and pop culture appeal. The Haas cronies ruined the company over decades and now it's time to say Adios or goodbye in a number of third world languages. I'm a single voice saying "do you hear a giant sucking sound"?Try everyday to protect our way of life. HRB....no thanks to your scheme too,  I'll take my tax refund to a Native American run casino long before I hand any portion over to Indians (Madras variety)!

steve zak
Tuesday, January 13, 2004

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