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turned off because of "old" style GUI

Just downloaded Freepascal. Turned off by the dos-style IDE.
How many of you might react the same way as I ?

definitely not joel
Monday, September 15, 2003

Man, I really miss the old school Borland C++ IDE.  I've been turned away by everything since then.  I'd go back to that in a heartbeat.

Patrick Lioi
Monday, September 15, 2003

Ditto for me.  The only saving grace of these graphical IDEs is that I can run several programs at once without a lot of fuss.  I much prefer the fast, clean character based IDEs of old though.

oldster
Monday, September 15, 2003

I'm still one of the probably few people who still make money using Turbo Pascal 7.0.  I probably do 60% TP and 30% Delphi 6 (the other 10% is taking decision makers to Hooters).

I love Delphi, but LOVE the way TP7 starts up in a heartbeat.  I grew up with Wordstar commands so I can fly.  It really is a great IDE for being 11 years old. 

Before you laugh at me, one of my strengths is that people laugh at me and totally underestimate what I produce with TP7 under DOS (with the help of Netware).  They discount what I can do and then I proceed to blindside them while they are still trying to recover from their Visual XX install blowing away their machine.

Remember--my Samsung S105 mobile phone is probably 50 times more powerful than the Apollo 11 Command Module computer.  But it ain't gonna get me to the moon--it's the software that counts!

Steveo-Rino
Monday, September 15, 2003

Steveo-Rino

Just curious, what kind of apps that you develop?
Where are you located?
How can you sell those kind of apps in current day of flashy (any)windows or web based apps?

David Elle
Monday, September 15, 2003

It is a medical claims system that REALLY runs 24x7.  It collects over 10 billion $ a year worth of claims and mails out a like amount of reports, EDI files, etc.

I'm in the Midwest.

How do I sell it???  By taking guys to Hooters!  And delivering on time and relatively cheaply. 

Steveo-Rino
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

>> TP7 under DOS (with the help of Netware)
>> It is a medical claims system that REALLY runs 24x7

Fascinating! And kudos to you for resisting fragile but glitzy tools and selling value to your customers!

What database? And are these Win32 console applications or just plain old real mode DOS? Do you use any DOS extenders or EMM support?

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now... :-)

Bored Bystander
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

>> But it ain't gonna get me to the moon--it's the software that counts!

Well, I guess that those big rockets do help a little too..

.
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

What's "Hooters"?

Matthew Lock
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

"What's Hooters? "

Hooters is a little owl of a restaurant
http://www.hooters.com/

Cletus
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

It doesn't really use a database--I guess you could say PkZip.  There is LOTS of "low level" file handling.  Netware is really good at serving files.  Really good.

Turbo Pascal 7 is a subset of Borland Pascal 7.  TP7 produces real mode .exes while BP7 can also produce extended DOS .exes (and has a relatively few more bells and whistles) that use a Borland supplied royalty free DOS extender (better, in my opinion, having used both, than Phar Lap's 286 Extender).  I don't use BP7 since if I need more memory than a real mode DOS exe can handle, I just use Delphi instead.

Steveo-Rino
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

I know, you spilled and this Q&A will therefore be endless. :-)

Thanks for the answers. Do you use Turbo Vision for your DOS applications?

And how do you get around the obvious major UI differences between a Windows UI and a character mode DOS application? It doesn't sound very feasible to mix Delphi apps and DOS apps in the same  customer's deliverables.

(and if you tell me that you ported Turbo Vision to Delphi and you produce Win32 console applications with it, I will start bleeding out of my ears...too... much ... information...)

Bored Bystander
Tuesday, September 16, 2003

"(and if you tell me that you ported Turbo Vision to Delphi and you produce Win32 console applications with it, I will start bleeding out of my ears...) "

http://dwp42.org

Kevin
Wednesday, September 17, 2003

Honestly, the TP7 DOS based approach is something i often
dream of, but reality bites....

I still remember the things I was doing with MUMPS on PDP11 machines. The power, perfromance, usability
and scalabiltiy that we were achieving with this configuration i can't reproduce now even with 8 GB RAM, 8 processor monster running SQL enterprise and the latest
development tools

Sad but true

Seemore
Wednesday, September 17, 2003

Having come from a mainframe environment (COBOL), then to DOS/console programming, then to GUI based development (VB & Delphi), and then finally server based coding (Java) I can honestly say that I prefer the "old style" world.

As odd as it may seem to some, I think the older systems were more stable and productive.

Brad Clarke
Thursday, September 18, 2003

"As odd as it may seem to some, I think the older systems were more stable and productive. "

I agree with this.  My thinking is that this is mostly because of how many layers of abstraction there are out there today for even the simplest of things.  This abstraction exists side by side with really sloppy coding practices so each layer introduces more bugs, more unintended side-effects, and more cognitive distortion.  I remember when it was easy to look at a program and get a fundamental understanding about how the state of the environment evolved as the program executed.  This is no longer true in many cases.

Obviously, if we will build systems of the scale that we are doing today, we need abstraction.  But the abstraction has to be clean, it has to be tight, and it has to be clear.  You have to be able to make assumptions that the abstraction does what it claims to do and just as importantly does no more than it claims to do.  What a world that would be.

old timer
Thursday, September 18, 2003

Hello,

I work on e old style IDE for turb/borland-pascal, freepascal, assembler (gnu,borland). Thi is possible, because i use the commandline programs, which are called from the ide. But i don't know, how much money i can get for such a project.
Please tell me, what you would give for.

Thomas

Thomas Schönfelder
Sunday, June 06, 2004

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