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europe outsource to india

is the european  counterparts to shell and bmc types sending development to india ?

whoa
Friday, September 12, 2003

thats "are" ?

whoa
Friday, September 12, 2003

Yes, European firms do outsource to India.

Shell is a global company - I think most of ther IT R&D is done in the UK and Holland. I do not know if Shell plans to close IT elsewhere and only expand in India.

Ram Dass
Friday, September 12, 2003

and several others as main banks and insurance companies in UK, Germany....

support lines, development tams, software maintenance...

Europe is not different from USA in this concern.

here is also other outsorce, moving development and other tasks to other cities in the same country where costs are lower.

Here in south of Europe is another country for outsourcing: Marocco (and other nearest) now moving a lot of jobs as telemarketing, support and some other manual tasks, same of Mexico since years.

its natural, but very hard to know in your niche while you're thinking you niche is (was?) at very high rate.

Guillermo
Friday, September 12, 2003

Actually, it looks like the UK outsources to India while most of the rest of Europe outsources to Romania: http://www.silicon.com/news/500021-500001/1/5975.html

RocketJeff
Friday, September 12, 2003

They are already re-relocating back from Eastern Europe, e.g. EDS who had their customer support moved over there but now come back to Germany because of quality concerns. And those companies that still don't get it outsource from Hungary to China, like Oracle or IBM.

Johnny Bravo
Friday, September 12, 2003

"The report, Offshore 2003 Romania, claims that not only is the cost of using and providing IT services there much cheaper than India, but there is an abundance of well-educated and highly-skilled workers who also have a better understanding of western European culture."

Hehe.  I want to see the website where all the Indian programmers are complaining about losing their jobs to the Romanians :).

Also:

"The rising costs for UK firms providing and using Indian offshore IT services could drive organisations to cheaper locations such as Eastern Europe, according to analysts."

So the IT prices in India ARE rising, enough for firms to notice.  Not quite the panacea they thought, eh?

Jim Rankin
Friday, September 12, 2003

Yes, the prices in India are probably raising.

I can tell you from personal experience that the prices in Romania and Hungary are raising to.

The advantage people in East Europe have over India is indeed the fact that we practically don't have important cultural diferences with the West Europe or US.

Romanian developer
Friday, September 12, 2003

You don't have that much in common with us, either.

Lord British
Friday, September 12, 2003

"The advantage people in East Europe have over India is indeed the fact that we practically don't have important cultural diferences with the West Europe or US."

I disagree. India was not communist controlled for the last 50 years. Communism makes people stupid, angry, abusive, argumentative, alchoholic, irrational and unwilling to take responsibility for their actions. Eastern European developers don't code to spec, don't deliver what the promise, then complain about it and blame other people. On the other hand, Indian developers deliver what the promise.

Globetrotter
Friday, September 12, 2003

We shall continue to work hard and improve ourselves and to keep proving to managers in US and Western Europe that we are a superior or at least equal alternative to India.

Many managers in Western Europe are already convinced of this fact - I met them, and spoke with them, and they simply told me exactly what I wrote before - that developers in East Europe have a culture which is a lot closer to the Western Europe culture.

East Europe is a part of Europe. Most of the countries in East Europe have a 99% European culture - the same as UK or France.

It is not different - it is practically the same.

The fact that communism makes people alcoholic or something is nothing more than a sterotype. Yes, it makes some people so.

But developers are not the average people. Developers are intellectuals - educated people, who have technical university degrees and who perform intellectual work.

And we are not alcoholics, nor stupid!

What happens if I apply the same kind of judgement about the US?

Let's take an average american for example. From the technical support the company I work at does for our products, I belive that the average american can't spell his own language, and that at least 20% of the average americans are braindead.

Hey, feel free to continue to belive whatever you want to belive about Eastern Europe.

But we are intelligent, smart, well educated, and willing to work very hard.

We are hungry for success, and we shall continue to prove to managers in the US and Western Europe this.

We have already proven ourselves many times, and we shall continue to do so.

Romanian developer
Saturday, September 13, 2003

http://www.salamandr.com/comics/Dilbert/Dilbert-20030803.gif

qa
Saturday, September 13, 2003

Go India!

Hanuman
Saturday, September 13, 2003

Hanuman - King of the Code Monkeys!

Stephen Jones
Saturday, September 13, 2003

If you put two Americans in a room together, they'll sue each other; put two Japanese in a room together, and they'll start apologizing to each other; two Chinese will do business; and two Ukrainians or Russians will sit down over a bottle of liquor.

Sign O' The Times
Saturday, September 13, 2003

And if you put two Indians in a room together, they'll form three political parties: one each, plus one together.

Hanuman - King of the Code Monkeys
Sunday, September 14, 2003

And people - please do not be that emotionally involved in these discussions.

Because good programmers wouldn't start defending their countries. They are sitting and working! And they have no time for this stupid discussion.

and you guys should understand that one of the main parts here (that you don't discuss) is the marketing force. Hire a marketer for 100k+ a year and he will find clients for a penguin team that writes software at southern pole.

but as a manager of a pretty big offshore development company I should say that exSoviet countries will kick the butt of many other countries because programmers there are of pretty good quality. and price is reasonable.

Serge
Sunday, September 14, 2003

And a [good] manager of a pretty big offshore development company has time for this stupid discussion ;-)


Serge:

"Because good programmers wouldn't start defending their countries. They are sitting and working! And they have no time for this stupid discussion ....... but as a manager of a pretty big offshore development company I should say that exSoviet countries will kick the butt of many other countries because programmers there are of pretty good quality. and price is reasonable"

Will
Monday, September 15, 2003

Oh yes, good point.

that's MY job to analyze trends and spend time reading all this stuff etc.

and let developers develop :)

Serge
Monday, September 15, 2003

I read this page while trying to do research about the cost of outsourcing from Europe.  Ex. How much does it cost Europe to outsource to India?  I am having a difficult time finding what I need.  Can someone here help me out?

Also being from Georgia and living in a communitst country half my life then moving to US I can tell you that communism doesn't make you angry or turn you into an alcoholic...don't get me wrong I am not at all offended by your comment just wanted to correct you misconception.

please help me out.
Thank you

Ekaterina
Wednesday, May 05, 2004

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