In US Windows there are a bunch of mnemonic keyboard accelerators, like
I'll swear they are the same, at least in W2K and Win XP
I disagree with the advice given in the book that they should be translated. But check what the appropriate version of Windows or Word does (as I said I don't think it translates)
The common ones are not localized in French as far as I know:
Agree with Stephen. The guide doesn't distinguish between accelerator keys (ALT+) which MUST be localized and Shortcut key.
I did a quick check with WordPad on a German Windows 2000, SP1. He're the shortcuts:
Swedish and Dutch software uses ctrl-c / x /v etc just like english versions.
Thanks. I'm working on the CityDesk localization kit and wondering if I have to worry about these. So I guess European users of software are used to things like Ctrl+P for print even if that's not remotely mnemonic...
In the Hebrew version of Windows, The "File" = "Kovetz" menu in most programs is opened by Alt-"Koof", which is actually Alt-E and not Alt-F.
> With Ctrl+X, C, and V my guess is those keys were
Zip up, your Cooper is showing.
In Japanese windows they also use the same keyboard shortcuts as English
"IIRC (and I may not be!) there was quite a long period during the Windows 3.1-and-earlier days when X and V were not cut and paste."
Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Please, don't translate shortcuts. This only confuses people that use both the English and localized versions.
While we're on the subject: a bizarre localisation gotcha I ran into with Excel recently. In French (and other) locales, Comma Separated Value (CSV) files use a period as the field separator. This is because comma is used as the decimal separator. If you have an application which exports CSV, you have to adapt your separator depending on the system locale. Which means CSV files aren't portable between locales!
I have run across this as well and have changed all my separators to | pipes with no problem so far.
As a developer I swear to US-English versions of everything. So doing a find in Norwegian Word is difficult, as ctrl + f is localized to mean bold ("fet" in Norwegian). Ctrl + f is, "obviously", changed to ctrl + b.
In the Spanish version of Office, the "edit" shortcuts (ctrl-c, ctrl-x, ctrl-v) are the same, but the rest are translated.
Windows still retains the original Ctrl+Delete, Ctrl+Insert, and Shift+Insert bindings for cut, copy, and paste in addition to the newer Ctrl+X,C,V for usability reasons. There's no good reason to force people who learned Windows 3.1 to relearn how to cut, copy, and paste and there is a certain logic to the choice of keys. I've found very few applications that don't support those key bindings.
Another advantage of the old key bindings is that Ctrl-X, C, V have absolutely no chording value for us lefties.
We have just been using Russian Windows with the language settings set to Russian etc. and the same ctrl-c hotkeys do work. The one thing to note however is that we have an english keyboard attached to the box, not a russian one.
Why should a file format obey local currency formatting? Nearly all, if not all, programming languages use the dot as the decimal sign, why shouldn't file formats follow the same convention? You would be really thick if you can't read the numbers in your cvs file the one time you have to open it in notepad.
Well, in OS/2 (common ancestor at least), mnemonics could, if I remember correctly, be redefined in resource files - and were in our case. I'd imagine this function still exists in Windows (hard to believe it was something new on our end or something MS would have taken out).
I'm also frequently annoyed by the localization of some shortcuts in Word 97. In the German version formatting text bold or italic is ctrl+shift+f ("fett") and ctrl+shift+k ("kursiv"). The more popular shortcuts (clipboard actions, print, ...), as noted above, are not localized. Don't know if more recent versions changed this behavior.
Stephen, I think the point Thomas was trying to make is that it makes more sense for CSV to be a consistant format, and for the program to translate between that and localized format on input/output. The only case I don't see this being true is if the user wants to edit the CSV file by hand
For reference, I made a macro in Lotus Approach 97 (back in, well, '97) in the Danish version of the program. The macro used shortcut keys to mark an area and export it to Excel.
Glenn. B. Hansen
Mike, I understand Thomas's point but it doesn't work. There are plenty of cases where you are getting the data for a CSV file from a program that does not change numbering systems - word for example.
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