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How to Dress?

I am starting a new job in two weeks that has srict dress requirements. It will be dress shirt and pants, with occational ties days as well.

Now, I have only worked in no-dress code environments, so I am a novice :)

How does one iron the shirts every day?

I am about to go and but around 7 to 10 dress shirts. The thing that is puzzling me is how am I going to find the time to iron them? I naturally will be putting them to wash at day's end.

I can take them to the dry cleaners - but won't this make the shirts fray faster and would that be expensive. How do folks get around this dilema?

John Doe
Wednesday, September 03, 2003

John,

Find a cleaners near you that does shirts for $2 or less. Buy 2 weeks worth of shirts (10?) and plan a weekly visit to the cleaners at the end of each week.

Although this sounds politically incorrect, I have found in the last 20 years of doing this that Asian businesses know what time it is. They offer excellent service and decent prices with few exceptions. A lot of the gringo establishments have spotty service and often overcharge.

Order them with no starch. I haven't noticed any extra wear. In fact, I think they last longer than if I did it myself. Having them done professionally takes the worries away from you. You'd much rather have fun or worry about the job than worry over doing heavy laundry/ironing each week.

StickyWicket
Wednesday, September 03, 2003

Use starch in summer months when it's hot. The shirt will be stiffer, cling less to you, and be cooler.

Always get 100% cotton shirts, worsted wool suits, and silk ties.

Match your belt to your shoes and your belt buckle to your watch band.

No fashion sense? Just get a dark blue suit and white shirts. You can't go wrong.

When you're evaluating a suit, grab the sleeve and crunch it up as much as you can. When you let go a good suit will spring back crisply without any creases. If it doesn't do this it's going to look wrinkled by the end of the day.

Never iron a suit without cleaning it; you'll just bake in the dirt.

Oh and one more thing: don't work for companies that think that what programmers wear is important. It's usually a sign of far worse misplaced priorities.

Joel Spolsky
Wednesday, September 03, 2003

Are you kidding?

You are concerned about ironing your shirts??

I am in slight shock. It takes about 3 minutes to iron a shirt, my husband takes slightly longer to do this task, however he also does a slightly better job then me.

In any event, shirts pants etc we iron ourselves...

You are just kidding aren't you???

An Aussie Chick
Wednesday, September 03, 2003

1. Learn to iron. It is a skill you will never regret.

2. Look at your boss's boss. Dress like him/her.

HeWhoMustBeConfused
Wednesday, September 03, 2003

One word undershirts. A good undershirt can help a dress shirt keep a pressed look much longer then without. Also they help keep the shirt and if nessesary suit jacket dry on hot moist days. I spent weeks wondering why my train buddies were allways dry looking and not suffering from massive wrinkles by the end of the day, the trick - the full t-shirt undershirt. Since the collar can often be seen when a tie is off, if you have nice shirts get nice undershirts to go with them, it makes a difference when the undershirt is not all worn out.

Watch the starch some shirt collars do not respond well to a lot of starch. Specifically the Corporate Collection of Jos. A. Banks (great shirts for the money in general, just a very soft collar in that line that too much startch caused the collar to krimp). A good cleaner will know what to do with this. One way to know if you have a good cleaner is if they do repair work or even custom tailering on site (most send them out, I avoid them, they tend to not know much about fabrics).

Also if you are new to dress shirts if your colars are not button downs and have plastic or metal stays in them, be sure to remove them before dry cleaning them. That can be a quick end to a nice shirt.

I second the Asian cleaners but have found success with several Turkish tailors/cleaners. (For suits I often have to get custom made, so a good cleaner is really worth it.)

One of the best times of the year to restock on shirts and suits in general is from Mid January to Mid February, get on some of the corportate mailing lists and you will get plenty of head notice.

Oh yeah and shoes, nice good well made shoes can make all the difference in my mind to making formal work wear comfortable. My favorite to date have been from http://www.toboot.com, buying shoes from Nordstrum can be worth it because of their great return policy, any problems any time and you can return them no problem, this can be well worth it.

Jeff
Wednesday, September 03, 2003

Buy the most expensive (high thread count) cotton shirts you can afford.  They will look better when they are worn out than cheaper shirts look when they are brand new. They will look better wrinkled at the end of the day than a brand new cheaper shirt. I prefer Pinpoint Oxfords from Lands End. Even if you take them to the cleaners, they will last for years. Specify light starch at the cleaners. Not all cleaners do an equally good job.

http://www.landsend.com/cd/index/fp/0,,311,00.html?sid=8617014912706167040

tk
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Let me let you into a secret, you can "iron" shirts by just putting them in the tumble dryer for 15 minutes. Wear the shirt all day then hang it on the line to air overnight. Airing the shirt will freshen the shirt again and creases should fall out.

Also do not buy shirts that are 100% cotton. Cotton wrinkles too easily. I go for shirts with 80% cotton 20% polyester, much less ironing that way.

Matthew Lock
Thursday, September 04, 2003

My 2 cents:

* Shoes: Wear brown shoes only with brown suits, black shoes with everything else. Buy oxfords (e.g. wingtips) for suits, not loafers.

* Belts: Size at waistband + 2. Don't buy a cheap belt - it makes everything else look bad.

* Socks: Color should complement the pant. Never do like the guys on ESPN and wear light colored flashy socks with a darker pant leg. Fashion deviation: buy the Eddie Bauer cushion sole casual socks.  If they're black or blue it's hard to tell that you're not wearing a dress sock. They are the single most favorite item in my wardrobe. (I'm not kidding!) Not only are they ultra-comfortable but they wick away moisture very well.

* Shirts: Avoid thin ones. They look cheap even with a t-shirt underneath. Inspect the button threads before buying. I find a lot of loose ones that fall off shortly after buying them.  Check the buttons when you pick up from the cleaners.  They press hard and tend to break them frequently. Blue shirts look good on most people and match a lot of suit colors.

* Suits: Avoid double-breasted. They don't look good unless you have the right frame, and they don't look right un-buttoned. Avoid suits with 3- or 4-button jackets if you have a bit of a gut. They will accentuate your girth.

* Pants: If you're not a size 32 anymore, then don't lie to yourself. Buy the right size. You always see guys wearing pants that are about 2 sizes too small with their gut sticking over the belt. Not good.


---------- Best advice so far ----------

+ Find a cleaners near you that does shirts for $2 or less. Buy 2 weeks worth of shirts (10?) and plan a weekly visit to the cleaners at the end of each week.

+ Use starch in summer months when it's hot. The shirt will be stiffer, cling less to you, and be cooler.

+ Always get 100% cotton shirts, worsted wool suits, and silk ties.

+ Match your belt to your shoes and your belt buckle to your watch band.

+ No fashion sense? Just get a dark blue suit and white shirts. You can't go wrong.

+ When you're evaluating a suit, grab the sleeve and crunch it up as much as you can. When you let go a good suit will spring back crisply without any creases. If it doesn't do this it's going to look wrinkled by the end of the day.

+ One word undershirts.

+ ... if your collars are not button downs and have plastic or metal stays in them, be sure to remove them before dry cleaning them.

+ ... well made shoes can make all the difference in my mind

+ Buy the most expensive (high thread count) cotton shirts you can afford.


---------- Worst advice so far ----------

- Never iron a suit without cleaning it; you'll just bake in the dirt.
==> I would truncate this to "Never iron a suit." Unless there's some sort of emergency, always take them to the cleaners. If you have to iron them yourself, hang them and use the steamer on your iron. If that doesn't work, iron with a thin handtowel between the iron and the suit.

- Are you kidding? You are concerned about ironing your shirts?? I am in slight shock....
- Learn to iron. It is a skill you will never regret.
==> Ironing is easy. Ironing well is not. It can be difficult to get the collar and shirt front (the strip with the button holes) to look crisp on a cotton shirt. If you use starch, it can be a mess too. Are you a man of the world, or what? Pop for the $2 the cleaner charges.

- Let me let you into a secret, you can "iron" shirts by just putting them in the tumble dryer for 15 minutes.
==> This will remove a lot of the wrinkles in the shirt body, but it won't look sharp.

- Also do not buy shirts that are 100% cotton. I go for shirts with 80% cotton 20% polyester, much less ironing that way.
==> This is just personal taste, but having been a teenager in the 70's, I eshew any shirts / pants with polyester in them. I just think they look tacky.

Nick
Thursday, September 04, 2003

If there is 20% or less polyester in the shirt it's very hard to tell by looking at it. I found that 100% cotton shirts wrinkle so easily it looks like you haven't ironed it.

Matthew Lock
Thursday, September 04, 2003

"Look at your boss's boss. Dress like him/her"

John Does should wear a mid-calf skirt and jacket with padded "power" shoulders? On his own time, maybe, but I don't think I'd recommend it on his first day at the new office.


Thursday, September 04, 2003

Are pants what we British call trousers?

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Thursday, September 04, 2003

wow, looks like i walked into a Men's Warehouse discussion forum:-)

10 bucks says Joel's next non-software article is on this:-)

Prakash S
Thursday, September 04, 2003

1. Get a different job, there is utterly no reason a programmer should EVER work in a place with a dress code, it is one of the number one signs of talentless management (have a read of Peopleware).

2. Ironing a shirt doesn't take long once you've got the hang of it. Just iron the weeks shirts on a sunday while watching the football.

Mr Jack
Thursday, September 04, 2003

I'm sorry Joel, but 2I couldb't agree less. Dark blue suits are not the way forward unless
1) You are a naval officer (millitary or merchant) and
2) They are double breasted.

I would reccomend a dark grey wool suit  - possibly double breatseded if you are of ample girth, and single breasted otherwise.

Shirts, plain is OK, but but coloured is also good. Checks and stripes are very popular at the moment (and can be good, especially with Italian tailoring). If you do go down this line, make sure your tie and shirt don't clash (it is too easy to go for a "boggly" effect without meaning to. Oh, and shirts with a double top button are really good, as you can generally get an extra cm of breathing space round your neck, without it being noticable behind your tie.

Speaking of ties, learn to tie a decent half or full windsor tie knot. It does make a difference.

Then go to work and look great!

regards,

treefrog
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Another hint on ties.  If you are tall, and have trouble finding ties long enough, learn to tie a "Pratt" knot.  It uses a little less material than a half-windsor, but still gives the tie that full symmetrical look.

You can find out how to tie the 4 common tie knots (including the Pratt) along with a nice paper on the math of tie knots at Dr. Thomas Fink's site: http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/

--Steve

Steve Barbour
Thursday, September 04, 2003

"Get a different job"

...bandied about so easily. Someone who ditches their job at every annoyance will have a resume full of six-month gigs. Employment is a smorgasbord of issues - it's where you spend 1/3 of your waking life, so of course it's going to have 1/3 of life's little "issues." You simply cannot afford to jump ship at every little unraveled thread.
Dress codes for developers may be a sign of poor management, but what if it's the ONLY sign? What if it's got flexible hours, structured development methodology, the programmers are respected, good pay, good benefits, etc, etc, etc? You gonna quit over a tie? If there's poor management, trust me - it'll show up in more ways than "where's your coat today?"

And as for "If you are tall, and have trouble finding ties long enough"
...keep shopping. I'm 6'4 and don't have problems finding ties long enough.

Finally, regarding "what to buy" - a good men's clothier (*and* Men's Wearhouse) will help you buy a wardrobe. If all you want is a suit, then they should lay out a selection of shirts, ties, and shoes that complement the suit. They can also help you select a number of complementary coats and slacks to maximize your wardrobe.
Be advised - this is fun, but gets very expensive very quickly.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, September 04, 2003

"Are pants what we British call trousers?"

American to British translator:

Pants = Trousers
Underwear/underpants/undershorts = Pants

:)

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Thursday, September 04, 2003

On the sub-topic of "Programmers should wear whatever they want, any requirements for programmers dress is a misplaced priority", I'd like to note that not all programmers are hidden away or deal with lax clients.  The programmers where I work (including myself) deal with internal clients and vendors.  While our branch offices are a bit more casual our city office requires suits because we are extremely visible entering, leaving, and throughout the day.  What we wear says a lot to others about how seriously we take our business.  I'd argue that it can help improve productivity and focus as well, but that depends on many other factors.

As far as suits and dress clothes, buy a more expensive shirt/suit/belt/tie/shoes than you would normally consider.  You'll be wearing them often and for a long time and better material shows after a few months.

Suits should only be sent to the cleaners twice a year or if you spill something on it that will stain. 

Buy some wooden hangers.  Metal hangers offer no support to the shoulders and plastic hangers can be sharp and abrade material.

Learn how to polish your own shoes.

Match your shoes and belt strap. 

Match your metals.  A silver watch and gold cufflinks looks strange.  Gold cufflinks with a silver tie pin looks odd as well.

Buy a tie pin, it should reside roughly half-way down the tie.  A quick way to check is once the tie is on fold it back up until the tip touches the bottom of the knot.  Insert the pin at the fold.

The tip of a tie should fall in the middle of your belt buckle  A little higher is okay, a little lower makes you look like you're 4 and wearing your dad's tie.

When you buy your shirts, take care to ensure that the sleves, cuffs, and neck are appropriate.  A good fitter will ensure this.  Then get the shirt tailored (that is, have the body slimmed a few inches).  This will make for a much less bulky shirt when you tuck it in and create a much slimmer and more appealing line.

Get a wide variety of shades.  If you don't have to wear a suit at all times you can buy some darker colors (no black).  A good start would be several white shirts, pink, salmon, light blue, lavendar, light grey, ecru, light green.  You can extend into a darker green (never too dark) a darker blue (french blue is a winner), a nice red/maroon shirt, etc.

Socks should match your pants (that's trousers across the pond).

Cuffed pants are fading from style but never disappear.  I happen to like them, but they are less formal.  suit pants should never be cuffed.

You pants should break (that is, they should fall) 1/2 inch through the shoe.  This will create a small natural fold a few inches up on the pants.  It should be a small shadow line.  This extra fabric is what helps hide your socks when you walk so you don't flash a lot of leg.  A good fitter will help with this.

Buy your shoes before you buy your pants/suits.  This helps the fitting process.

Buy shoes with leather soles if you can.  When the sole wears out you can have it resoled for less than 20 dollars.  That saves you money over the long run.

Invest in a nice briefcase.  At every promotion buy a new one as your last one is surely worn by then.

Unless you are very heavy, avoid pleated pants if possible.  Pleated pants with tapering legs make you look heavy at the hips and narrow at the legs, an awkward thing.  Flat front or single pleated pants are very nice.  The legs should fall nearly straight (a slight taper is okay).

And here's the formality guide as it was given to me by someone who should know (I forget the name but he charges tens of thousands of dollars to address VPs of the larger companies, I don't know how we got him)...

Shirts... less formal to most formal
Button collars (those with small buttons at the end of the collars to keep them down).
Standard collars
Tab collars (that is, the top button isn't a button but a small loop of fabric - this creates a better line for the tie)

Pants... less formal to more formal
Uncreased
Creased - Cuffed
Creased- No Cuff - pleated
Creased - no cuff- no pleats
Creased - No Cuff - single pleat

One last piece of advice... don't be afraid to experiment.  A good full length mirror and some proper illumination will let you know if your tie doesn't match your shirt.  At worst, when shopping ask a passing female or sales attendant.

Best of luck with the new job.

Lou
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Philo:

He hasn't started yet. Not starting a job at all doesn't show on your CV. If they're already showing signs of bad management before you even get there then they're unlikely to shine when you do.

It is much better to spend a few weeks unemployed than to spend a couple of years working somewhere awful.

Mr Jack
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Mr Jack:
I can think of quite a few individuals I've worked for that, if they were CEO, would mandate a dress code of coat and tie for their entire company, but would allow the VP's and subordinate managers to run their departments any way they want.
So again - one single pecadillo does not a crappy job make. My current boss is an "it's off by one pixel" kind of guy. I'll bet if I posted that, the groupthink would be "micromanager - quit your job." Except that it's simply that he's demanding in how his product looks. But he's exceptionally fair, completely hands-off, and respects my opinion on technical matters.

I still maintain there's more to an employer than any single glitch may indicate.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Philo:

You are correct Philo in stating there is more to an employer than any single glitch. But I believe that _in general_ these glitches will tend to be part of a pattern rather than isolated exceptions. This does not mean there won't be exceptions, only that those exceptions will be rare.

A job has too large an impact on your quality of life to play those odds, in the absence of a reason to believe your case is the exception. The original poster gave no such reason, thus I give my 'get a different job' advice.

Mr Jack
Thursday, September 04, 2003

"Employer with a dress code" <=> "Employee with a college degree"

"In general" someone with a college degree will know more and have a greater maturity than someone without.

Ditching a job because it has a dress code is like ditching resumes because they don't have degrees listed. Sure it's an indicator, but you stand a great chance of missing a diamond in the rough.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, September 04, 2003

This is surely the best thread in ages.

punster
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Appart from the tie-pin and the pink, salmon and light green shirts, where I would beg to differ, real solid advise from Lou.

Just me (Sir to you)
Thursday, September 04, 2003

I've run into people who psyche were shattered when they learned that there are people who not only spend less than $100/month on dry cleaning but have never been to a dry cleaner.

I once worked at Peter Norton/Symantec where the dress code was sneakers, jeans and a t-shirt.  Most people wore sandals, shorts and a tank-top. The other major tennant in the complex was IBM when they were still in the "black tie" phase. Lot's of pointing and snickering in both directions.

Now I occasionaly have to wear "business casual". Basically casual slacks and a shirt with a collar. All I care about is wrinkle-free. Whoever NAILS that will be richer than BILL.

fool for python
Thursday, September 04, 2003

http://www.menswearhouse.com/home_page/guys_guide/gg33_howto_archive.jsp?bmUID=1062694622006

that shld keep you guys busy for the next 30 mins

Prakash S
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Philo, as to tie length, I am 6 ft and find that most ties don't leave the amount of "tail" I like (the under side length). I'm not willing to spend time looking all over to find just the right length.  Actually, I'm not even willing to pay much attention to the tie at all, except to make sure it clashes "fashionably".

My experience with clothes shopping works two ways.

I either walk into a full service clothier and say "I need x suits for x occasions.  No more than x$ total. Go." get fitted and leave or I go into a chain store, find a brand of slacks that fits and buy 10 pair, find a brand of shirt that fits and buy 10.  I don't generally buy ties and socks.  That's what I have children for.

The last advice I'll give is dress to suit yourself.  If you prefer to wear cuffed pants with a suit (as I do), go for it.  My experience is that most people glance and see that you're not a slob and leave it at that.  No need to be a clothes horse if you don't want to.

Steve Barbour
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Pants/trousers -

I am an American from California and I went on vacation in Scotland in the summer. It rained. All the time. It doesn't rain in California in the summer time, so I expected that it would be like it is in the winter in Northern CA where it rains some of the time. Anyway, I need some waterproof clothing.

I went into the sports shop in Ft. William and asked for waterproof pants. The person thought this was rather amusing...

pdq
Thursday, September 04, 2003


"Never iron a suit without cleaning it; you'll just bake in the dirt."

I'll second the notion of a previous poster: Never, never iron your suit. If you're wearing a suit, then it should be a good quality suit and a good quality suit is not made to be ironed.

"Buy a tie pin, it should reside roughly half-way down the tie"

I would avoid tie-pins or tie-tacks. They're not really in style anymore and they make you look like you wear a tie about once a decade.

As far as cufflinks go, personally I think they are tacky and obnoxious. Just like having your sleeve collar monogrammed with your initials. To me, it just screams "Look at me! I want to be somebody too!"

My fashion advice can be summarized as follows:

1. Buy good quality suits. Forget the crap at Mens Wearhouse.
2. Buy good quality shirts and have them tailored.
3. Buy good quality shoes with leather soles.
4. And never, never iron anything made out of wool.

Mark Hoffman
Thursday, September 04, 2003

"At worst, when shopping ask a passing female or sales attendant."
That's a picking opportunity, also.

Leonardo Herrera
Thursday, September 04, 2003

If I might take a small detour: Does the old "Dress for the job one level up from yours" rule still apply?

Mark Newman
Thursday, September 04, 2003

In general, I'd agree with the advice not to iron your suit. In an emergency, however, it is possible to iron wool and wool blends:

1. Turn off the steam in your iron. In fact, empty the water out of your iron.
2. Get a cotton presscloth. An old-fashioned white handkerchief is perfect.
3. If possible, turn the garment inside-out (unless you're trying to touch up the crease in the trousers, in which case inside-out would be kind of counterproductive).
4. Set the iron to a low heat. If there is a "wool" setting, use that; otherwise, turn the knob to just a bit before the halfway mark.
5. Press the garment through the presscloth, keeping the iron in constant motion.

The combination of no steam + press cloth + inside-out should avoid both shrinkage and the dreaded shiny effect.

Still, I'd stress that this is for emergencies only. And really, if it's a good wool fabric, ironing should never even be necessary.

Martha
Thursday, September 04, 2003

..."Forget the crap at Mens Wearhouse"...

Any recommendations on high quality clothiers?

Jeff MacDonald
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Mark probably wears Ermenegildo Zegna :-)

Prakash S
Thursday, September 04, 2003

"Any recommendations on high quality clothiers? "

I'd try to find a small mens clothing store around you. If you live near a major city you should be able to find a place that specializes in mens clothing and is staffed with experts, not teenagers on a summer job.

For me, I shop for suits and dress clothes at Culwell and Son, a small mens-clothing store here in Dallas. The prices are reasonable and the service can not be beat. Many of the salespeople have been there for over 30 years. These guys know men's suits.

http://www.culwell.com/

Mark Hoffman
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Interesting nobody has bothered to ask the most important question , which is where is the job?

Because the climate makes a heck of a difference. You don't want the same clothes in Miami you have in New York

Also the poster talks about "occasional tie days". In other words he's not going to be wearing a suit most of the time.

What the dress code seems to be is a slightly superior version of business casual; that is to say leather shoes as opposed to loafers, and slacks as opposed to chinos.

Sure, in the winter outside of the tropics you'll want to wear a jacket and tie, and a suit saves you agonizing over matching, but the guy won't want to be wearing a tie if he doesn't have a jacket. The advice he has been given is good, particularly Joel's, although I disagree about never ironing a suit without cleaning it. In countries like the UK, where dry cleaning is expensive, I would iron the suit after three or four days, and then take it to the dry cleaners after another three or four days. Incidentally, you can take suits to the dry cleaners every week; where the guy who says you should only take them twice a year gets the idea from I don't know. Presumably from the same source that told Elizabeth I she should only bath once a year.

With regard to ironing, what I do is wash and dry the clothes at home, and then take them to the dry cleaners for ironing. I only iron myself in an emergency. Remember the dry cleaners has special  presses that allow them to iron your shirt in no time, and much better than you are ever likely to do it.

If you are in a hot climate 100% cotton shirts are a must; I would go for them anyway.

Get leather-soled shoes; and make sure that the sole is STITCHED, and not glued, to the upper. You test it by trying to peel off the bottom; doesn't make you popular with the sales assistants when you succeed, but they should have informed you correctly in the first place. Looking at the shoe doesn't work - the Italians in particular are adept at putting in false stitches on both the bottom and the top of the sole. If you are in a hurry get a pair of Sebago dress shoes, as they are excellent quality, and look good (I've never bought any other make for the last ten years), but they do have the American fault of being wide at the sides, and you certainly won;t win any fashion awards. Brown shoes should only be worn with brown trousers, but if you don't want to buy both brown and black shoes, then get ox-blood, as they will go with nearly everything (but make sure you are able to get a matching belt as they can be hard to find).

For shirts it's a question of looking around, and deciding what you like. No good to you now, but if you ever go to India, get as many Indian Van Heusen shirts as you can. The quality is stunning, as they make them like the Americans and British did fifty years ago. The modern American and British Van Heusen shirts are rubblish, and should be avoided like the plague. The company that makes Indian Van Heusen is called Madurai textiles, and it also makes another brand called Emerald which is half the price ($8-$10 instead of $15 -$20, in India or Sri Lanka), and looks pretty good, though the stitching is not up to the same high standard.

If you have a bit of money to spare, and are looking for the casual but sophisticated look go to Burberry's and get them to kit you out. You'll look good for everything but a realtors convention, though you may find yourself looking good in bankruptcy court if you really go to town.

And, most important of all, make sure you feel good and look good in the clothes. It will really show otherwise.

Stephen Jones
Thursday, September 04, 2003

Iron you own shirts? You are kidding...right?

Down the street I get my shirts cleaned for 99 cents a piece. That includes the shirt being pressed and returned on a coat hanger wrapped in plastic.

That 99 cents is in Canadian dollars, so in US dollars, that is about 60 cents a shirt based on the exchange rate.

I bring 20 shirts at a time to those guys.

Of course a good many of the shirts are supposed to be dry cleaned, but I have never noticed any difference between dry cleaning, and the laundry service. So, I get 20 shirts perfectly pressed and cleaned for $20. I can, and often get two days out of each shirt.

When I say perfectly pressed, I mean perfect. It is simply impossible to use a iron and get as good as job as those big pressing machines.

You can do the math!

Anyway, I suggest you check around to all the cleaning companies in your location. You fill find that MOST have a laundry service. I tried it once, and it blew my mind out how as to how good of a job they did, and how low of a cost.

Don’t use dry cleaning except for special shirts like silk or other materials.

at 99 cents a shirt cleaned and presssd .....I don’t iron anymore....

I am under the impression that most cities have such a service. Check around...

Albert D. Kallal
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn

Albert D. kallal
Friday, September 05, 2003

I agree that, in general, there is no reason to have a dress code for programmers who are not visible to clients.

However, this one thing alone isn't enough to prove that your new employers are dingbats. If you took seriously the suggestion that you should bow out over this single issue, without giving the company a fair go, then you, not the company, would be the one elevating mere clothing above all other criteria.

And that would be superficial, wouldn't it ;-)

Fernanda Stickpot
Friday, September 05, 2003

Interesting how the  Access programmers get their shirts ironed at the laundry, and the C++ programmers iron them themselves.

Could there be a moral here :)

Stephen Jones
Friday, September 05, 2003

yes, Stephen, there is a story: Access programmers earn more than C++ programmers:-)

wait a sec, I know both, does that mean...:-)

Prakash S
Friday, September 05, 2003

Yes, Stephen - it means that Access programmers recognize efficiency and maximization of limited resources. On the other hand, C++ programmers are determined to do everything by hand no matter what the cost.

Good observation!

Philo

Philo
Friday, September 05, 2003

"Any recommendations on high quality clothiers?"

Brooks Brothers is pretty good. You can get nice button down cuffed 'non-iron' shirts that you can wear straight from the dryer. Great for those chilly mornings... :)

No T's for me
Saturday, September 06, 2003

Once you've dressed appropriately, look at your finger nails. They should be clean and well-trimmed. Dirty, crooked nails can undo a $2000.00 suit of clothes.

Personal grooming should be included in daily prep.

(INHO anyway)

Dave Burkett
Monday, September 08, 2003

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